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Last Post 03 Feb 2015 08:05 PM by  The_Winch
Would you support head/cam swaps in SP?
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SMSupercoupe
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27 Jun 2013 09:00 PM

    Just out of curiosity:

    How many in *SP would be in favor of aftermarket cams?

    How about aftermarket valve springs/retainers?

    How about porting & polishing stock head castings?

    How about aftermarket head castings?

    Obviously, the cost of building a car would go up, so there's one good reason to oppose it. But personally, I'd probably support it, since I think it would be a lot of fun.

    Thoughts? I don't want to write any letters at the moment, but I do want to see what others in SP have to say on the subject. I suspect most of the other ESP guys might like it, but I have no idea about the other SP classes.


    cbramey
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    27 Jun 2013 10:33 PM
    Absolutely. Strokers too. This is not going to help most sp cars today very much for autocross, but will certainly open up better participation and make a better overall car.

    texlbs
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    28 Jun 2013 03:52 AM
    I would support it but limit it to naturally aspirated engines.
    ACM
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    28 Jun 2013 05:43 AM
    I might support porting - if it includes turbos :-) - but none of the rest.

    Modern engines typically are rev limited by valve springs - changing those will uncork a whole new set of expensive problems, and that applies to aftermarket cams as well.. Aftermarket heads exist only for a few motors, so I don't see how that could be reasonable unless any car with aftermarket heads available gets bumped up a class - which would probably happen anyway given the HP increase.

    The only way I can see this being safe/practical/reliable is to change the engine rules to simply "engines are free, but must be based on a stock type block". Otherwise we will fill SP with high dollar fragile motors, and (s)he with the biggest wallet wins, and I don't see that adding anything positive.

    Oh - if heads or cams are free then turbos have to be free as well :-)

    Charles
    Frank05v
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    28 Jun 2013 11:34 AM
    Essentially then you've just created SM and SSM and maybe SMF... So based on this logic, do away with SP and merge the cars into the appropriate SM classes.

    Isn't SP already filled with fairly high dollar fragile motors?
    BigEnos
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    28 Jun 2013 11:51 AM
    Introducing more HP with all else staying the same would just exacerbate the problems we are already faced with. Driveline components, hubs, bushings, bearings, etc, are all wearing fast and/or failing on SP cars. I'd very much prefer durability mods if we are going to introduce more aftermarket parts into the SP universe.

    My unofficial personal opinion, of course.
    ACM
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    28 Jun 2013 12:10 PM
    Posted By BigEnos on 28 Jun 2013 11:51 AM
    Introducing more HP with all else staying the same would just exacerbate the problems we are already faced with. Driveline components, hubs, bushings, bearings, etc, are all wearing fast and/or failing on SP cars. I'd very much prefer durability mods if we are going to introduce more aftermarket parts into the SP universe.

    My unofficial personal opinion, of course.

    100% with you on this.  With the grip we have now everything is breaking constantly already - I would love to see additional allowances to help improve reliability provided the cars don't get significantly faster.  On average I rip at least one front upper A-arm mount out of the car every season.

    The only performance improving allowance I would like to see is a switch from stock-type suspension bushings to allow spherical bearings - I'm sick of having to rebush the whole car every winter :-)

    Charles


    Brigdh
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    28 Jun 2013 12:35 PM

    Eh, no.  At most, I might support polishing, but I think that would be hard to enforce.  I agree, this basically makes SP into SM-lite, which is probably not the best way to go.  SM already has issues with power modifications not being able to be properly supported and breaking things (first tire where you can really fix these things seems to be Prepared), SP would probably be 100 times worse.  Not to mention, SM was specifically created for this stuff.

    One wild card is how do you extend these to rotaries?  Changing cams changes valve timing, which is "port timing" on a rotary.  In order to "change cams" on a rotary, you port it.  Of course, if only cams are allowed on a piston engine, but porting is allowed on a rotary to give it the same effect, then a rotary can port, but a piston engine can't. 

    mlane350z
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    28 Jun 2013 07:36 PM
    Absolutely not.
    ACM
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    29 Jun 2013 12:17 AM
    Absolutely not - what ? There's several dissenting opinions so far - what are you disagreeing with ?

    Charles
    mlane350z
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    29 Jun 2013 08:27 PM
    All things mentioned in the original post.
    mccanixx
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    02 Jul 2013 03:14 PM
    Posted By BigEnos on 28 Jun 2013 11:51 AM
    Introducing more HP with all else staying the same would just exacerbate the problems we are already faced with. Driveline components, hubs, bushings, bearings, etc, are all wearing fast and/or failing on SP cars. I'd very much prefer durability mods if we are going to introduce more aftermarket parts into the SP universe.

    My unofficial personal opinion, of course.

    I would agree to this before long before I would agree to allowing "headwork/replacement" other than is currently allowed.

     

    I'd love to find more power. I'd hate the effects on everything else on my car...(without being able to address them) 

    Ryno
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    03 Jul 2013 12:16 AM

    How about aftermarket valve springs/retainers?

     

     

    Yes Please. 

    StrokerAce
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    03 Jul 2013 08:08 AM
    Do you mean just combining prepapared and street prepared categories?
    BigEnos
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    03 Jul 2013 11:19 AM
    Posted By Ryno on 03 Jul 2013 12:16 AM

    How about aftermarket valve springs/retainers?

     

     

    Yes Please. 

    So titanium retainers and stronger springs. That's a recipe for adding 500rpm to a motor and making more power (potentially). I'm sure you are thinking "stuff that won't break," but everyone else is thinking "now I can make more HP and get more RPM out of the engine!"

    Boxologist
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    03 Jul 2013 07:19 PM
    I want turbos, and forged internals, Sadev transmissions, and cryo treating. But not for anyone else. And if you were ever called an alien you have to drive with a blindfold. And SSSs on duty have to be blindfolded. And I should have T&S be blindfolded for my runs too. And I get to have a negative cone count for my runs. I also can't work or drive 1st heats.
    Ryno
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    04 Jul 2013 12:02 PM
    Posted By BigEnos on 03 Jul 2013 11:19 AM
    Posted By Ryno on 03 Jul 2013 12:16 AM

    How about aftermarket valve springs/retainers?

     

     

    Yes Please. 

    So titanium retainers and stronger springs. That's a recipe for adding 500rpm to a motor and making more power (potentially). I'm sure you are thinking "stuff that won't break," but everyone else is thinking "now I can make more HP and get more RPM out of the engine!"

    True,

    I'm sure I'd turn up the RPM's as well but was thinking reliability. 


    psycko069
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    10 Jul 2013 10:05 AM
    I could agree with springs and retainers. I would love to make the top end of the motor a bit more reliable. As far as everything else mentioned, no. Doing so will bring SP and the respective SM classes even closer together, and open up wallets just a bit more. If anything I would like to see more allowances in suspension......
    Eman911
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    11 Jul 2013 09:43 AM

    I would support all of those recommendations, but only for cars over 30 years old.

    John V
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    Posts:1854


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    14 Jul 2013 08:34 PM
    Posted By SMSupercoupe on 27 Jun 2013 09:00 PM

    Just out of curiosity:

    How many in *SP would be in favor of aftermarket cams?

    How about aftermarket valve springs/retainers?

    How about porting & polishing stock head castings?

    How about aftermarket head castings?

    Obviously, the cost of building a car would go up, so there's one good reason to oppose it. But personally, I'd probably support it, since I think it would be a lot of fun.

    Thoughts? I don't want to write any letters at the moment, but I do want to see what others in SP have to say on the subject. I suspect most of the other ESP guys might like it, but I have no idea about the other SP classes.


    No. If you want to do that stuff, go to Prepared. The perceived cost to enter SP is already too high which discourages participation.

     I'd rather take weight out of the car than essentially be forced to spend more money on a motor.

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