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Last Post 14 Jan 2015 01:04 PM by  OZMDD
C5s in STU?
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hklvette
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22 Jul 2013 01:43 PM

    Let the bench racing begin!

     

    For reference: Bolt-on LS1s seem to get around 335rwhp, 345rwtq.  1st gear on stock diameter tires is 53mph @ 6200.  2nd is about 80mph.   Weight is around 3100 sans driver for the lightest versions.

     

    edit: In case you're wondering where this came from, look in the Street Touring section of the August Fastrack.

    AStockVette
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    25 Jul 2013 05:06 PM
    The "lightest" versions i.e. FRC are excluded.
    hklvette
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    25 Jul 2013 05:09 PM
    Posted By AStockVette on 25 Jul 2013 05:06 PM
    The "lightest" versions i.e. FRC are excluded.

    Already wrote a letter about that.  Can't see it having that much of an advantage, at least not so much that it doesn't still come down to the driver.

    Justin Huffman
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    27 Jul 2013 02:47 PM
    ~57 MPH in 1st for an automatic with base gearing, and the torque convertor should help get you off the turns.
    85rx-7gsl-se
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    25 Aug 2013 09:08 AM
    I am interested to see what comes of this.
    Justin Huffman
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    28 Aug 2013 10:06 PM
    The Corvette belongs in STR with the other two seat cars, not thrown into a dominant position in STU against a bunch of sedans. But the Miata guys might not like it there either. If we class the C5 somewhere in Street Touring, why not the C4?
    85rx-7gsl-se
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    29 Aug 2013 08:42 AM
    You think a C5 on 285 street times will dominate AWD boost buggies?
    splash
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    29 Aug 2013 07:04 PM
    I think they could, with the options of varying rev limiters, tire diameters, and selecting between manual and automatic. I'm sure the gearing issue that the STAC/SEB base this on could be gotten around.

    The STI can only do 56mph in 2nd with stock limiter and stock tire diameter, yet you don't see the STI getting a break on classing because it isn't geared favorably.

    We've already seen how course design can make the E36 M3 a winner, does anyone think the regular C5 couldn't top that?
    85rx-7gsl-se
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    29 Aug 2013 10:46 PM
    So what you are saying is it will likely be course dependent? If so, it would sound closer to equal than dominant.
    OZMDD
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    30 Aug 2013 04:11 PM
    Posted By Justin Huffman on 28 Aug 2013 10:06 PM
    The Corvette belongs in STR with the other two seat cars, not thrown into a dominant position in STU against a bunch of sedans. But the Miata guys might not like it there either. If we class the C5 somewhere in Street Touring, why not the C4?

    Yes, please send the C4 and C5 vettes to play with us in STR. For that matter, you are welcome to send the C6's and Z06 variants too, just as long as they all abide by the 255 tire/9 inch wheel rule.


    Z3papa
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    30 Aug 2013 08:34 PM
    I know it may be unrealistic but I'd really like to see STU or some variant open up for C5/C6 Vettes so they have a place to play in ST classing. I think that with some honest suspension mods, camber, they could really bring life into STU where it may be lacking.
    Justin Huffman
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    30 Aug 2013 10:56 PM

    The only course dependent piece I see is ProSolo, otherwise the boost buggies won't be able to hang with C5 Corvettes.

    I didn't realize STR had such tiny tires- that won't be a good fit either.

    Justin

    splash
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    02 Sep 2013 08:35 PM
    Posted By 85rx-7gsl-se on 29 Aug 2013 10:46 PM
    So what you are saying is it will likely be course dependent? If so, it would sound closer to equal than dominant.
    No, I'm saying that a C5 win would not be course dependent.

    Like I said, I do not buy the gearing argument as justification to allow C5's in STU because it is no worse than the STI's gearing. Now, cap the C5 to 245's like us, and we'll talk.

    Similarly, I would hope that the current demonstration of a 350Z almost winning STR at the Pro Finale precludes the thought of giving them 30mm more tire and shipping them to STU as well.
    85rx-7gsl-se
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    03 Sep 2013 02:26 PM
    Posted By splash on 02 Sep 2013 08:35 PM
    Posted By 85rx-7gsl-se on 29 Aug 2013 10:46 PM
    So what you are saying is it will likely be course dependent? If so, it would sound closer to equal than dominant.
    No, I'm saying that a C5 win would not be course dependent.

    Like I said, I do not buy the gearing argument as justification to allow C5's in STU because it is no worse than the STI's gearing. Now, cap the C5 to 245's like us, and we'll talk.

    Similarly, I would hope that the current demonstration of a 350Z almost winning STR at the Pro Finale precludes the thought of giving them 30mm more tire and shipping them to STU as well.

    Just out of curiosity, is your strong opinion that the C5 will consistently beat the STIs and EVOs based on specific results?  Or just opinion?
    hklvette
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    03 Sep 2013 04:59 PM
    Posted By 85rx-7gsl-se on 03 Sep 2013 02:26 PM
    Posted By splash on 02 Sep 2013 08:35 PM
    Posted By 85rx-7gsl-se on 29 Aug 2013 10:46 PM
    So what you are saying is it will likely be course dependent? If so, it would sound closer to equal than dominant.
    No, I'm saying that a C5 win would not be course dependent.

    Like I said, I do not buy the gearing argument as justification to allow C5's in STU because it is no worse than the STI's gearing. Now, cap the C5 to 245's like us, and we'll talk.

    Similarly, I would hope that the current demonstration of a 350Z almost winning STR at the Pro Finale precludes the thought of giving them 30mm more tire and shipping them to STU as well.

    Just out of curiosity, is your strong opinion that the C5 will consistently beat the STIs and EVOs based on specific results?  Or just opinion?

    245s on a C5?  I'd be amazed if anyone would bother setting up a car like that.  Also, what's the Evo's 2nd gear worth?

    There is going to be a lot of "don't tip over my apple cart" going on with this one.  All of the boost buggy drivers aren't going to like it, and that's all there is to it.  Heck I'd bet if the proposal limited the Vette to 245s they STILL wouldn't like it, because "sedans".


    85rx-7gsl-se
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    03 Sep 2013 05:11 PM
    I am just trying to figure our how limiting a 2wd car to the same tire size as an AWD with what I would assume is roughly similar weight/power is anywhere near fair?

    Also food for thought, the non-Z06 C5s are in the same proposed stock class as the Evo/STi. Will the c5 gain that much more of an advantage in STU trim than an Evo/STi?
    gary p
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    03 Sep 2013 09:46 PM
    Posted By 85rx-7gsl-se on 03 Sep 2013 05:11 PM
    I am just trying to figure our how limiting a 2wd car to the same tire size as an AWD with what I would assume is roughly similar weight/power is anywhere near fair?

    And I'm trying to figure how letting a car with similar weight,  much lower CG, much better F/R weight balance, and short/long arm suspension at all 4 corners have 40mm more tire width than the Evo and STi is anywhere near fair. 

    hklvette
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    03 Sep 2013 10:49 PM
    Question: has anyone done a back-to-back test on an STi/ Evo to demonstrate if or how much faster they would be on the same tires as the 2WD cars?
    splash
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    04 Sep 2013 12:42 AM
    FWIW, an EVO's 2nd gear is good for 63mph with 245/40-17 tires and a stock limiter.

    Keep in mind, the rally cars are tall, 60% front heavy, and use struts (not in a good way like BMW either). The tall/front heavy part makes it problematic to keep all 4 wheels down, and you have to, or else your AWD becomes 1WS (1 wheel spin).

    It's just that folks are asking me to accept a car that is similar in weight, is superior on power/torque (and power delivery), has a 40mm tire advantage, is lower (both in terms of ground clearance and roof height), has proper sports car weight balance, has a proper sports car suspension, and accept it because it has screwed up gearing (which isn't any more screwed up than mine is already). Forgive me if I am skeptical.

    Oh, and I wasn't serious about limiting the Corvette to 245's. I know nobody would do it. It's an extension of the thought that nobody would bother to set a 350Z up on 255's, but one darn near won the STR Pro Solo finale that way.

     

    hklvette
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    04 Sep 2013 08:48 AM
    Posted By splash on 04 Sep 2013 12:42 AM
    FWIW, an EVO's 2nd gear is good for 63mph with 245/40-17 tires and a stock limiter.

    Keep in mind, the rally cars are tall, 60% front heavy, and use struts (not in a good way like BMW either). The tall/front heavy part makes it problematic to keep all 4 wheels down, and you have to, or else your AWD becomes 1WS (1 wheel spin).

    It's just that folks are asking me to accept a car that is similar in weight, is superior on power/torque (and power delivery), has a 40mm tire advantage, is lower (both in terms of ground clearance and roof height), has proper sports car weight balance, has a proper sports car suspension, and accept it because it has screwed up gearing (which isn't any more screwed up than mine is already). Forgive me if I am skeptical.

    Oh, and I wasn't serious about limiting the Corvette to 245's. I know nobody would do it. It's an extension of the thought that nobody would bother to set a 350Z up on 255's, but one darn near won the STR Pro Solo finale that way.

     


    Okay.  Next question: Would the situation be better if the AWD cars got 285s?

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