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Last Post 21 Aug 2013 09:49 PM by  MGrand34
T2 p-bug weights
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twin_turborx7
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02 Aug 2013 04:57 PM

*** Post removed. ***

Everyone enjoy the continued demise of the touring classes. T2 in particular that went from the best and most well attended class to shambles all in the good name of a handful of cars.

It is also worth noting for the haters - I don't race in T2, never have.  I do though however care a lot about the touring classes.  The only other thing that sucks for T2 given where it is at now is that the "Oli-Cali" crew already got ticked off and left SCCA.  At least there would have been more cars in T2.

When the shit show is over with this year perhaps people will feel differently, but I doubt it.

 

fatbillybob
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03 Aug 2013 12:59 AM
Posted By twin_turborx7 on 02 Aug 2013 04:57 PM 

Very early in the year C5's with restrictors and heavier were under the former T-1 track record at Road Atlanta in March. Nevermind T2 track records, T1 track records. Think about that for a moment. Supposed to be slowed down from T-1 but were under the track records of Ingle and Croyle times at Road Atlanta.

I can't dispute your facts.  I can say that I was with nearly a dozen socal T1 cars in the previous 2 years.  We shared alot and often used the same mechanics.  Some of those drivers were well optimized and ran prior runoffs and sprints.  In this new T2 year nothing was given to the C5 to make it faster from old T1.  All it got was 120lb of ballast  and a restrictor.  How a T1 car with more weight and less HP could break T1 records is beyond me.  I got predictably slower in 2013 in my re-labeled T2 car.  I wish I knew how those re-labeled T2 cars got faster than the same car in T1.
twin_turborx7
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03 Aug 2013 08:22 PM
More of same this weekend.
C5 3 secs faster lap times ahead of next fastest non C5 and on 70 second track laps.
And within 1 second of T1 leaders.
ITRacer07
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04 Aug 2013 11:12 AM
Still beating head against desk!
dsanders
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04 Aug 2013 12:50 PM

Ok, I’ll play along with…

At Watkins Glen a mustang was on pole, won and set the track record, which was nowhere near the old T1 record set by John Heinricy.  Oh, he is a ‘rookie’ also.

At Beaverun the same ‘rookie’ in a mustang beat Don Knowles, who was in a C5.

So how about this, stop your whining and race your cars. Just like I have been told to do for the last 7 years when the C5 was not competitive! Now back to beating my head against the desk.

Dave Schotz
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04 Aug 2013 06:29 PM
Never trust the results of a Phoenix backed driver 'during mid season'... the Phoenix gang are the best at sand bagging, getting all sorts of allowances... and then walking away from the field at Runoffs.

Results during the year mean nothing. (unfortunately).

Dave
MGrand34
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04 Aug 2013 10:14 PM
Dave, was that the same Mustang driver you beat at Summit Point and NJMP?
fatbillybob
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05 Aug 2013 01:47 AM

At Watkins Glen a mustang was on pole, won and set the track record, 

At Beaverun the same ‘rookie’ in a mustang beat Don Knowles, who was in a C5.


Never trust the results of a Phoenix backed driver 'during mid season'... the Phoenix gang are the best at sand bagging, getting all sorts of allowances... and then walking away from the field at Runoffs.

Results during the year mean nothing. (unfortunately).

These are two very interesting posts.   I was at CoTA and the exuberance of being the first on CoTA was too much for anyone to hold back the red mist.  Phoenix was there that week before and supposed to race SCCA then did not stick around.  I was on track with the mustang which pulled like a freight train.  On both raced days in  T2  Cole's  mustang and Kelly's  C5 had near identical laptimes.  Race craft would determine a winner.  Note the porsche won on saturday but at seconds behind the T2 leaders in fastest lap.  I was in the back so did not see what happened.  But I think there was contact/protest and the porsche was put ahead of both.  I am incline to think the Mustang will win the Runoffs. We will see soon.  If they don't get 10 cars in T2 to crown a national champ what happens?

dhrmx5
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05 Aug 2013 08:41 AM
The problem here is that the CRB has taken a class that was full of front runners with full Runoffs fields and f***ked it up. DaveS, your vettes had their days when they were the only game in town for T1. Why are they now allowed to dominate T2, which previuosly had an interesting mix of cars?

As far as Cole's Mustang being competetive, we are leaving it home even though currently T2 is the only class he is qualified in.
dsanders
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05 Aug 2013 10:48 AM
Posted By MGrand34 on 04 Aug 2013 10:14 PM
Dave, was that the same Mustang driver you beat at Summit Point and NJMP?

Yes, the mustang that beat me in the Saturday race then I got in the Sunday race at Summit, and the mustang that out qualified me at NJMP and I got by in the race.

Then that mustang got bigger wheels for the Glen and somewhere along the way got a bigger plate (after COTA ?)

I’m not denying that the C5 is not the car to have, I just pointing out that we have had some good battles with the Mustang here in the Northeast. Also, if the Porsche can do a 2:25 at Road America it is in the ballpark. Marty, you and CJ got screwed….



twin_turborx7
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05 Aug 2013 04:31 PM
Posted By dsanders on 05 Aug 2013 10:48 AM
Posted By MGrand34 on 04 Aug 2013 10:14 PM
Dave, was that the same Mustang driver you beat at Summit Point and NJMP?

Yes, the mustang that beat me in the Saturday race then I got in the Sunday race at Summit, and the mustang that out qualified me at NJMP and I got by in the race.

Then that mustang got bigger wheels for the Glen and somewhere along the way got a bigger plate (after COTA ?)

I’m not denying that the C5 is not the car to have, I just pointing out that we have had some good battles with the Mustang here in the Northeast. Also, if the Porsche can do a 2:25 at Road America it is in the ballpark. Marty, you and CJ got screwed….



a 2:25 isn't gonna be in the ballpark for the big dance  And a big difference running a single lap 2:25.8 versus dozens of laps that fast  Just sayin.

There is always a car to have, nobody faulting that.  Just not used to seeing them quite this dominant 


jasonberkeley
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05 Aug 2013 06:49 PM
No disrespect to Patel, but let's see what that car does with Boden behind the wheel.
MGrand34
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05 Aug 2013 07:08 PM
Dave , you know We don't blame you one bit, just odd they aren't trying to fix it. So the Mustang got faster since I've seen it? Some of that may be the driver getting better and running fresher tires, but i never heard of the larger plate. I wish I was capable of dropping weight or putting on wider tires but I am 100lbs north of the 3200 pound weight they gave us so we are sitting at 3300lbs (same as the vette). 275 tires are the largest I can fit in the car.

Marty
dhrmx5
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05 Aug 2013 08:24 PM
Mustang didn't get a bigger plate. We had barely recieved our plates in the mail when the new smaller plate was specced.

I was blown away when the stang got a smaller plate BEFORE 1 had even hit the track in 2013.
Cheyne
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05 Aug 2013 10:48 PM
It was the March Fastrack were the Mustang went from a 70mm to 65mm restrictor.
MGrand34
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05 Aug 2013 11:06 PM
"Yes, the mustang that beat me in the Saturday race" Officially he did beat you but only after you were DQ'd for passing a Miata under yellow.
fatbillybob
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Posts:110


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06 Aug 2013 03:08 AM
Posted By dhrmx5 on 05 Aug 2013 08:41 AM
The problem here is that the CRB has taken a class that was full of front runners with full Runoffs fields and f***ked it up. DaveS, your vettes had their days when they were the only game in town for T1. Why are they now allowed to dominate T2, which previuosly had an interesting mix of cars?

As far as Cole's Mustang being competetive, we are leaving it home even though c urrently T2 is the only class he is qualified in.


well old t1 would have been firing on al cylinders in 2013 if they would have just lleft it alone
ITRacer07
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06 Aug 2013 08:07 AM
Posted By dhrmx5 on 05 Aug 2013 08:24 PM
Mustang didn't get a bigger plate. We had barely recieved our plates in the mail when the new smaller plate was specced.

I was blown away when the stang got a smaller plate BEFORE 1 had even hit the track in 2013.

Yep,  I drove a 996 at Sebring on the test day in Jan with Mustangs on track.  I then sent a letter asking for more weight off the Porsche.   We got weight off and the surprise was the Mustang getting a smaller plate?  My letter was based off of the straight line advantage I saw in the Mustang .


dsanders
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06 Aug 2013 09:37 AM
Posted By MGrand34 on 05 Aug 2013 11:06 PM
"Yes, the mustang that beat me in the Saturday race" Officially he did beat you but only after you were DQ'd for passing a Miata under yellow.

No, he beat me on track. I got penalized 3 spots (moved behind Brad, CJ and you) because I was the only one that got caught passing a Miata under one of the 8 local yellows

I worded my comment about the mustang plate wrong, when I said bigger, I meant more restrictive.

I agree if they left T1 alone with some small adjustments it would have been fine and if they left T2 alone that would be the best class out there, as it was in 2012...

CP Thunder
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06 Aug 2013 12:03 PM
Posted By fatbillybob on 03 Aug 2013 12:59 AM
Posted By twin_turborx7 on 02 Aug 2013 04:57 PM 

Very early in the year C5's with restrictors and heavier were under the former T-1 track record at Road Atlanta in March. Nevermind T2 track records, T1 track records. Think about that for a moment. Supposed to be slowed down from T-1 but were under the track records of Ingle and Croyle times at Road Atlanta.

I can't dispute your facts.  I can say that I was with nearly a dozen socal T1 cars in the previous 2 years.  We shared alot and often used the same mechanics.  Some of those drivers were well optimized and ran prior runoffs and sprints.  In this new T2 year nothing was given to the C5 to make it faster from old T1.  All it got was 120lb of ballast  and a restrictor.  How a T1 car with more weight and less HP could break T1 records is beyond me.  I got predictably slower in 2013 in my re-labeled T2 car.  I wish I knew how those re-labeled T2 cars got faster than the same car in T1.
Our car isn't better this year. Realistically we gained about 75 lbs.  We lost 40rwhp.  We did change to 18s earlier in the year and a different brake package after Sprints. I CAN say, my driver is hands down better at her craft this year. 
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