SPS 468x60 Banner
PrevPrev Go to previous topic
NextNext Go to next topic
Last Post 10 Oct 2013 10:38 PM by  IanF
H Street car definitions for 2014 supplemental class
 13 Replies
Sort:
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Author Messages
bluesight
New Member
New Member
Posts:31


--
03 Sep 2013 01:05 PM

    HS and GS have been combined into an G Street class for 2014 leaving H Stock drivers in the cold. Regional and local AX clubs may still want to run a separate H Street class to bring in new drivers and help keep current Road Tire HS drivers. This topic offers a place to help define the cars that may be included in H Street regionally and locally. It is based on the 2013 HS class with a significant modification, moving the HS mini out to allow them to compete in GS. New cars can be added as they are introduced, as is likely over the coming years. Perhaps in a future year, maybe even in 2014, H Street can be organized formally as a Supplemental class. 

    B

    bluesight
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:31


    --
    03 Sep 2013 01:19 PM

    Initial proposal for  cars to include in H Street optional/supplemental class:

    Acura

    CL (4-cyl)

    Integra (1986-89)

    Integra (NOC) (1990-2001)

    RSX (non-Type S)

    TSX

     

    Alfa Romeo

    1300

    1600

    2000 (4-door sedans)

    Sedans (NOC)

     

    AMC

    Gremlin (4-cyl & 6-cyl)

    Spirit (4-cyl & 6-cyl)

     

    Audi

    100 (non-S4)

    4000 (all)

    5000 (non-turbo)

    80 & 90 (all)

    Coupe quattro (non-turbo)

     

    Austin

    Mini (all)

     

    Austin-Healey

    100/4

    100/6

    3000

    Sprite (all)

     

    BMW

    1600

    1800

    1800ti

    1800 TiSA

    2000 CS Coupe

    318 (NOC)

    318i & 318is (1992-98)

    320

    7 series (6-cyl)

     

    Chevrolet

    Aveo

    Beretta (NOC)

    Camaro (inline-4 & inline-6)

    Chevette

    Cobalt (2.2L, all) (2005-10)

    Corvair (2 carb, non-turbo)

    Cruze

    Nova (4- & 6-cyl, RWD) (1962-

    79)

    Nova (FWD) (1986-88)

    Sonic (2012-13)

    Spectrum (all)

    Sprint (all)

    Vega & Cosworth Vega

    Volt (2012-2013)

     

    Chrysler

    300M (1999-2004)

    Laser (non-turbo)

    PT Cruiser (non-turbo) (2001-

    2010)

    Sebring (4-cyl)

     

    Daewoo

    4-cyl models

     

    Datsun

    1200

    1500 & 1600 Roadsters

    210 & B-210

    310 & 310 GX

    510

    610

    710

    810

    F10

     

    Dodge

    024 (1.7L)

    Avenger (4-cyl)

    Challenger (2.6L)

    Charger (non-turbo, FWD) 

    (1981-87)

    Colt (1600, FWD)

    Colt (1.8L 16v) (1993-94)

    Colt (1.4L & 1.5L, FWD)

    Colt (RWD)

    Colt Turbo (1984-88)

    Colt Turbo (16v)

    Dart (FWD) (2013)

    Daytona (4-cyl non-turbo)

    GLH (non-turbo)

    Intrepid

    Neon (2000-05)

    Omni (1.7L & 2.2L)

    Rampage (2.2L)

    Shadow (4-cyl non-turbo)

    Spirit (4-cyl non -turbo)

    Stratus (4-cyl)

     

    Eagle

    Summit (1.8L 16v) (1993-96)

    Summit (non-turbo, NOC)

    Summit Turbo (16v)

    Talon (16v non-turbo)

     

    Fiat

    124 (all)

    128

    131 (Mirafiori)

    850 (all)

    Brava

    Strada

     

    Ford

    Aspire

    Contour (4-cyl)

    Cortina (all)

    Escort (non-ZX2 S/R)

    EXP (all)

    Festiva

    Fiesta (2011-13)

    Fiesta (1976-80)

    Focus (except ST 2013)

    Fusion (4-cyl)

    Mustang (Inline-4 & Inline-6)

    Mustang II (4-cyl & 6-cyl)

    Pinto

    Probe (4-cyl non-turbo) (1989-

    92)

    Taurus (NOC)

    Tempo

    Thunderbird (V6 non-S/C) 

    (1989-97)

    ZX2 (non-S/R)

     

    Geo

    Metro

    Prizm

    Spectrum

    Storm (all)

     

    General Motors

    FWD models (NOC)

    RWD V6 models (NOC)

     

    Honda

    600

    800

    Accord (4-cyl)

    Civic (2006-13)

    Civic (NOC)

    Civic del Sol DX

    Civic del Sol S & Si (1994-97)

    Civic del Sol VTEC

    Civic EX & Civic LX (1988-2013)

    Civic Si (1989-91)

    Civic Si (1999-2000)

    Civic Si (2002-05)

    CRX (non-Si)

    CR-Z

    Fit

    Insight

    Prelude (1979-91)

    Prelude S (1992-96)

     

    Hyundai

    Accent (1995-2013)

    Scoupe (all)

    Tiburon (all)

    NOC

    Veloster (non-turbo) (added 9/4/13)

     

    Infiniti

    G20

    Isuzu

    Impulse (non-turbo)

    I-Mark (all)

    Stylus (all)

     

    Jaguar

    120

    140

    150

     

    Kia

    Forte & Forte Koup (2.0L)

    Optima

    Sephia (1.8L)

    Spectra5

     

    Lancia

    Beta (all)

    Scorpion

     

    Lotus

    Cortina

     

    Mazda

    Mazda2 (2011-13)

    Mazda3 (2004-13)

    323 (1.6L 8v)

    6 (4-cyl)

    626 (all)

    808

    929

    Cosmo

    GLC (all)

    Millenia (non-S)

    MX-3 (all)

    MX-6 (non-turbo) (1988-92)

    Protégé MP3 (2001)

    Protégé (NOC)

    R100

    RX-2

    RX-3

    RX-4

     

    Mercedes

    NOC

     

    Mercury

    Bobcat

    Capri (FWD)

    Capri (4-cyl & V6, German)

    Capri (4-cyl, US)

    Cougar (4-cyl) (1999-2002)

    LN-7 (all)

    Lynx (all)

    Milan (4-cyl)

    Mystique (4-cyl)

    Sable

    Scorpio

    Topaz (4-cyl)

    Tracer (all)

     

    MG

    MGA

    MGB & MGB-GT

    MGC

    Midget (all)

    “T” Series

     

    Mitsubishi

    Cordia (all)

    Eclipse (8v & 16v, non-turbo)

    Galant (4-cyl non-turbo)

    Lancer (non-turbo)

    Mirage (all)

    Precis

    Premier (all)

    Starion (non-turbo)

    Tredia (all)

     

    Nissan/Datsun

    200SX (4-cyl non-turbo)

    Altima

    Maxima (NOC)

    NX1600

    Pulsar (all)

    Sentra (1982-2013) (NOC)

    Stanza

    Versa (2007-13)

     

    Opel

    1100

    1900 (all)

    GT

     

    Isuzu

    Manta

     

    Peugeot

    405 DL & 405 S

     

    Pininfarina

    2000

     

    Plymouth

    Acclaim (4-cyl non-turbo)

    Arrow

    Champ

    Colt (1.5L)

    Colt (1.8L 16v) (1993-94)

    Horizon

    Laser (non-turbo)

    Neon (2000-01)

    Sapporo

    Scamp (2.2L)

    Sundance (4-cyl non-turbo)

    TC3

    Turismo

     

    Pontiac

    G5 (2.2L) (2007-09)

    T-1000

    Fiero (4-cyl)

    Firebird (inline-4 & inline-6)

    LeMans (FWD) (1988-93)

    Sunfire (2.2L)

    Vibe

     

    Porsche

    356 (non-Carrera)

    912

    924 (Audi engine)

     

    Renault

    NOC

     

    Saab

    NOC

     

    Saturn

    8v

    Astra (2008-09)

    DOHC models (NOC)

    Ion

    L series (4-cyl)

     

    Scion

    tC (incl. Release Series 5.0, 

    2009) (2005-13)

    xA (2004-06)

    xB (2008-12)

     

    Shelby

    Charger (non-turbo)

     

    Subaru

    Impreza 2.0i

    Impreza (NOC)

    Legacy (NOC)

    Sedan Turbo (NOC)

    NOC

     

    Sunbeam

    Alpine (4-cyl)

     

    Suzuki

    Esteem GL

    Forenza

    Kizashi (2010-13)

    Swift (all)

    SX4 sedan (2007-13)

     

    Toyota

    Camry (4-cyl)

    Camry (V6) (1988-91)

    Celica (FWD; NOC)

    Celica (RWD)

    Corolla (all)

    Cressida

    Echo

    Matrix (all)

    Paseo

    Prius

    Starlet

    Supra (1979-81)

    Tercel

    Yaris

     

    Triumph

    GT6

    Spitfire

    TR2

    TR250

    TR3

    TR4

    TR4A

    TR6

    TR7

     

    Volkswagen

    air-cooled models (all)

    diesel models (all)

    Beetle (2.0L)

    Dasher

    Fox

    Golf/GTI & Jetta (8v, all)

    Golf TDI

    Jetta (2.5L) (2005-13)

    Jetta TDI (2005-06, 2009-13)

    New Beetle (NOC)

    Passat (4-cyl non-turbo)

    Quantum

    Rabbit & GTI (all, NOC)

    Rabbit (2007-09)

    Scirocco (8v)

     

    Volvo

    P1800

    NOC

     

    Yugo

    all

     

    RWD pickup trucks (NOC)


    The Nebulizer
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:1819


    --
    03 Sep 2013 01:49 PM

    How do you justify creating HStreet AND moving the Mini simultaneously? The Mini is a relatveily heavy car for this class, if I am not mistaken, and that would suggest it slows down relative to the others on street tires. And, once you get rid of the Mini, will you have the problem of a new car (like Mazda3) dominating? The difference between GS and HS is already rather small (statistically identical at the national level). And, who will show up when the Mini is gone? I have not seen the support at national events or any indication this is a sustainable class (HS minus the MINI) - please, correct me if I am wrong.

    I would prefer seeing a contraction initially for Street and then follow up with any necessary separation to better represent the changes presented by street tires. It may turn out that something like DS/FS (rwd) merge is a better source for separation or somewhere else. It's a bit hard to identify how things will settle in the end. Having a little room to expand as necessary later would be better than startng maxed out and facing the difficult taks of merging later on.

    bluesight
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:31


    --
    03 Sep 2013 02:40 PM

    As an HS driver, destroying HS in order to save it doesn't have a lot of appeal. 

    This is a proposal to keep HS viable, for at least a while, in H Street form. Whether cars should or should not be in the a local H Street race will be optional at the local/regional level. So at this point, for better or worse, it will mainly act as an "easy to use" guide. 

    If Mini drivers think their cars really belong in an optional H Street class, I guess this could be the place to discuss it. Since the Mini was dominant in HS, and HS is getting merged to GS, somehow the Mini driver community wasn't able to make enough of a point that maintaining HS was pretty important. Discussions about the role of the Mini in HS have been mixed, and this proposal reflects a point of view in those discussions. Wish it could reflect more than one...

    B

    Z3papa
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:525


    --
    03 Sep 2013 09:40 PM
    Bluesight -- how many of your posts are not about the GS/HS merger or the proposal to have HS without the Mini? It seems like it must be 90% of your posts.
    bluesight
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:31


    --
    03 Sep 2013 11:07 PM
    Posted By Z3papa on 03 Sep 2013 09:40 PM
    Bluesight -- how many of your posts are not about the GS/HS merger or the proposal to have HS without the Mini? It seems like it must be 90% of your posts.

    This appears to be a forum to discuss issues that affect Solo AX, among many other things. As an HS driver, I am affected by these issues (HS/GS merger) very specifically. Seems appropriate to discuss them here, however specific the discussions might be. Other interests, other forums. Other interested folks, other contributions to this discussion and others like it. Not sure if that should be a problem.

    B


    bluesight
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:31


    --
    04 Sep 2013 03:20 PM

    It appears that both the turbo (200hp, maybe 2850lb - currently in GS) and non-turbo (138hp, maybe 2650lb - currently unlisted) Veloster are slated to go into G Street as part of the HS/GS merge. It seems appropriate to give the non-turbo Veloster a place in the optional H Street class. For comparison, the Ford Focus ST (2013 turbo currently in GS) comes in at about 250hp and around 3000lb, where the non-turbo Focus (currently in HS) is like 160hp and 2900lb.  Both are also slated for G Street in the HS/GS merge. 

    Thoughts? Comments?

    B

    Bullitt2954
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:673


    --
    04 Sep 2013 05:29 PM

    I requested classing of the Nonturbo Veloster in "Stock" early in the summer, as well as in "ST***". The NA-V was an obvious HS candidate, and was eventually classed there three or four Fastracks ago.

    As the Veloster is nearly identical under the skin in suspension, powertrain, and weight to the 2011+ Accent, I ASSUMED it would be classed in "STC" alongside it's (slightly lighter - ~100-odd lbs less for the sedan) brethren, and campaigned mine as such in Regional and Divisional events. Only, all that was for naught - as last Fastrack it was officially classed in "STF".

    Fine. Whatever. You guys know a heluva lot more about it than me. I'm just mildly irritated that it took so frickin' LONG to class it, and this year was essentially turned to a wash 3/4 of the way through the season.

     

     

    bluesight
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:31


    --
    04 Sep 2013 06:10 PM

    The latest FastTrack doesn't talk about HS classes (didn't check older ones). And the latest "official" classing rules I see from May, 2013 doesn't seem to show the Non-T Veloster. But if the HS classing is a semi-done deal, it makes it easy...Non-T Veloster will be in the Hyundai optional H Street list....I'll edit it in for now...

    B

    Bullitt2954
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:673


    --
    04 Sep 2013 06:39 PM
    It was the July Fastrack:

    #11108 Hyundai Veloster Classing Proposal
    Per the SAC, effective immediately upon publication add the following new class listing under Hyundai in HS
    Veloster NA (2012-2013)

    Of course, it was immediately swallowed-up by the "G-STREET " Monster.
    IanF
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:140


    --
    01 Oct 2013 06:49 PM

    I agree the MINI should be moved to GS on ST tires. I base this on my own experience a few years ago as a Novice running an '07 MINI convertible with Z1 Star Specs locally against other HS cars with more experienced drivers (but not in MINI's) on R-Comps. I regularly beat them or came darned close and I seriously doubt it was due to my driving skills.

     As soon as I heard about this proposal, I figured the MINI would be moved to GS as part of the re-classing shuffle.  It was disappointing to see HS eliminated entirely.  It seems like an odd decision to me.  GS was finally starting to come back after years of MCS domination.  HS numbers were low due to the dominance of the MC.  Take the MINI out of HS and I could see numbers improving over the next few years.

    davebs14
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:2498


    --
    09 Oct 2013 10:25 PM
    The mini is probably still the car to have in HS, but the Mazda 3 has proven to be a winner too. And the mini is not competitive at all in GS. So it still will be an HS car. Besides, HS was a class that was not well subscribed till the mini came along. And Mini has good contingency.

    Ian your local experiences are irrelevant. Local events are not a good yardstick unless its filled with national trophy winners. If I used your logic when I ran the mini in HS I could argue it belonged in BS or SS since I beat them all every month.
    Adam303
    Advanced Member
    Advanced Member
    Posts:530


    --
    10 Oct 2013 11:41 AM

    I think Mazda3 vs Mini is course dependent on r-comps or street tires when talking HS or H-Street. On a course that includes some long very fast sections and perhaps toss in a couple dig outs I think the Mazda3 and it's modest power to weight advantage can give the Mini a good run for it's money. However, even on courses that heavily favor power cars, it's likely an even race at best because you still have to turn, slalom ect and when it comes to handling, the Mini holds all the cards.

     

    What the Mini has going for itself is a short wheelbase, narrow width, light weight, and relatively low and stiff suspension especially with JCW springs. Apparently JCW spring rates are dependent on the options of the vehicle so a fully loaded Mini with a sunroof for instance has even stiffer springs than a stripper. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the guys with stripper models are getting a hold of and installing these springs. The Mazda3 is caddy soft and sits up considerably higher compared to a fully prepped Cooper. When you combine the stiff suspension with a much shorter wheel base and a few hundred pounds less on the same width or even wider wheels (7" width now available for HS Mini) the Mini is a scalpel and the Mazda is a hammer. Obviously, since HS is and has been a Mini spec class at the pointy end of the sport for quite some time, the scalpel is the preferred weapon of choice in this situation. When Burns won way back in 07 that was the Mazda3's high point in stock. Sort of like the ITR in DS, you probably won't ever see another one win at the big show (unless of course of the unlikely event they boot the Mini out of HS). Since 2007 the Mini has become a better and more developed HS car (thanks primarily to the "port installed" performance options that continually flow from Mini). The best Mazda3 on the other hand, is still essentially the same car Burns used back in the day and not much has changed there.


    The same course dependency holds true but to an even greater degree if the HS Mini were to ever compete directly with GS cars (which it probably never will). Nationals this past year holds some good data there from RTF. Same run group/conditions with a mix of GS/HS on street tires. The East course was the power course and the powerful GS cars handily beat the Mini. Burns was back 2.2 sec from Barber on the East course. On the West course Burns was less than .4 back from Barber. Two very different courses, two very different results.

     

     

     


    IanF
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:140


    --
    10 Oct 2013 10:38 PM
    Posted By davebs14 on 09 Oct 2013 10:25 PM
    Ian your local experiences are irrelevant. Local events are not a good yardstick unless its filled with national trophy winners. If I used your logic when I ran the mini in HS I could argue it belonged in BS or SS since I beat them all every month.

    I thought I had made that clear.  My region does have a number of national trophy (and a few jacket) winners. Including one of the ones I beat (during his pre-MINI days). But whatever....  Believe what you want.  
    You are not authorized to post a reply.


    Vorshlag 88x31 Button G-Loc Button
    Sunoco 88x31 Button
    Woodhouse Motorsports SPS 88x31 Button

    Advertise on SCCAForums.com and reach thousands of visitors per day!

    SafeRacer FREE SHIPPING over $99

    Shop for Pirelli tires at Tire Rack. blank




    Sunoco Bottom 468x60 Banner