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Last Post 03 Oct 2013 06:17 PM by  tstkl
SM/SSM or higher?
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tstkl
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11 Sep 2013 03:18 PM

    So I have read the rules for SM/SSM and I have often heard "if it doesn't say you can do it, you can't do it" but I just wanted to clear up some things I've read/heard that didn't exactly come off from the rules.

    Car is a 1988 Chrysler Conquest TSI (rebadged Mitsubishi Starion) which came with a 2.6L sohc turbo 4 cylinder. I put a 4g63 2.0L dohc turbo 4 cylinder in there, but also put a LS-1 spec T-56 Tremec 6 speed in it which required a new transmission tunnel. I'm mostly worried about this specific detail. The factory floor was retained and only the transmission tunnel from the firewall to the shifter location was modified/replaced.

     

    Other things I've heard are that you have to keep your rear seat belts, sound deadening, and other interior parts. The car will have full interior minus the rear seatbelts, sound deadening, and floor carpet.

     

    Lastly, the car came with hydraulic PS for a steering box. I will be converting it to an electric PS rack from an s2000. The rules say I have to use the factory mounting position, which is possible, but in this case impractical. Since the steering box and linkage system bolt so much higher up on the frame than a rack needs to, it would require a convoluted mount to install.

     

    I'm not particularly worried about being competitive, I just want to have fun in my car. The build was always to be the car I wanted and not for a specific class. Obviously I would have more fun if I was competitive and I think the car would be competitive in SM. Hopefully I can make it legal but its not the end of the world if I can't.

    85rx-7gsl-se
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    11 Sep 2013 04:05 PM
    Don't quote me, but I believe the non-Mistubishi trans will bump you into prepared.
    splash
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    11 Sep 2013 08:59 PM
    The tranny itself is good for SM, it's the tunnel modification that may kick it out. The manufacturer badging stuff is only for engine swaps. He could put a rally seq 6-spd in there if he wants (and might have fit the OE tunnel).

    I know you're allowed to do minor denting/notching/trimming to fit legal parts, but I don't think replacing a section of the tunnel would qualify. That said, this is with a national level point-of-view. The GM tranny isn't the "best" tranny you could have used and most regions would overlook the tunnel mods, especially if it looks like it still fits the spirit of the rule.
    tstkl
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    11 Sep 2013 10:39 PM
    what classes do allow modifying the trans tunnel? I'm guessing I would be pretty slow in a higher class but I don't care too much about what class I run in and would like to avoid headaches. I'm guessing any class that allows tunnel modifications would also allow stripped interiors etc, something I don't plan on doing with this car.

    I also realized the center console was removed because of the trans tunnel, so that is worth mentioning as well in determining this car's SM class legal-ness.
    splash
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    11 Sep 2013 11:59 PM
    Likely XP, or EM.

    Either would avoid all headaches.
    Kylini
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    12 Sep 2013 09:29 AM

    This definitely sounds like a case of tell your region and ask up front something along the lines of "I'm having trouble classing my car; it's mostly Street Modified but here's the grey areas; would you object to me running in SM?"

    No matter where it's classed, that's an awesome car you've made. Seriously, that sounds like a beautiful machine.

    splash
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    12 Sep 2013 11:37 AM
    Oh yeah, in SM, the steering rack position needing to be factory means factory for the car, not the rack. This is to prevent folks from relocating steering boxes/racks to create a steering/suspension geometry change.

    You will find they are sticklers in SM for anything chassis-related that could possibly alter suspension geometry and anything that reinforces the chassis itself (other than a roll cage).
    tstkl
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    13 Sep 2013 12:22 AM

    thanks a lot man. For anyone who's interested, here's an incomplete build thread. With school etc. the car has been neglected more than I would have liked.

     

    http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/...pic=123056

     

    As for the modifications, the steel that was used (what we had laying around) was thicker slightly, but also not corrugated like oem. Also since it is higher up it is probably less stiff except near the firewall where it would be more stiff. I will probably just race the car in XP so I don't have to worry about the other things.

     

     

     

    I believe 16.1.F.1 says anything can be done to the steering in SM. I don't know why I thought you couldn't. I wasn't worried about moving the rack, I was just thinking there was a much easier, cheaper, less heavy way of mounting the rack than using the oem steering box mounts.

    splash
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    13 Sep 2013 11:48 AM

    The rules say I have to use the factory mounting position, which is possible, but in this case impractical. Since the steering box and linkage system bolt so much higher up on the frame than a rack needs to, it would require a convoluted mount to install.


    I believe 16.1.F.1 says anything can be done to the steering in SM. I don't know why I thought you couldn't. I wasn't worried about moving the rack, I was just thinking there was a much easier, cheaper, less heavy way of mounting the rack than using the oem steering box mounts.


    I was wondering where you got that you had to use the oem steering box mounts... That said, your post made me think I had missed that somewhere. Also, SM is usually pretty tight about allowing anything that alters suspension geometry and anything that stiffens the chassis. Not that any of it matters in XP.
    FSPvolvo
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    25 Sep 2013 05:47 PM
    I don't recall any SM allowance to cut up the floor pan/tunnel/chassis to fit a trans. However I wouldn't worry about it since you added a heavier transmission than what you could have used (T5 being quite a bit lighter than the T56). So, not technically legal, but not something that gives you an advantage.

    I believe belts & hardware & headrests associated with rear seat can go. But the carpet isn't considered part of the rear seat so I don't think it can be removed legally. May need to refer to Street Prepared rules on the carpet. What I remember is if it's not fastened to the floor, you can remove it. More common would be trunk carpet that's formed to the trunk and sits in place w/o fasteners.

    Steering sounds fine, it's pretty open on the engine bay side. Electric power steering has been done for sure in SM (SMF actually).

    In essence, SM rules don't want you reinforcing the chassis beyond what is explicitly permitted, cutting up the chassis to fit drivetrain, and definitely doesn't want moved suspension mounting points on the chassis. What you hang off the chassis is quite open, so steering, suspension, engine (block of same make as factory block), trans, rear end is all open to significant changes.
    tstkl
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    28 Sep 2013 02:14 AM

    That's all good to hear. I had a custom bell housing made, so any RWD transmission with a removable bell housing could have been used (and with adapter plates I really could have used any transmission). I believe the t-56 weighs about 130 lbs, while the oem transmission was around 75 lbs. I've been reading the Prepared rules to see if I would fit into X prepared and don't see anything that says engine swaps are legal. I'll look through SM some more as well to make sure there isn't anything besides the trans tunnel and carpet that would cause issue.

    The car is fairly modified so I'm sure I'll only fit in some pretty crazy classes I'm not competitive in, but hopefully I can make something happen.

    SteveEkstrand
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    28 Sep 2013 12:17 PM
    XP is all about engine swaps.
    From Appendix A- for XP
    7. Engine and Drivetrain
    a. Engines must be derived from production automobiles. Motorcycle,
    snowmobile, marine, or other engines of non-automobile design are
    not permitted.
    b. Drivetrain and related systems (induction, ignition, fuel, electrical,
    cooling, oiling, etc.) and components (mounts, clutch, flywheel, etc.)
    are unrestricted except as noted.
    c. The engine orientation must not be changed (i.e., transverse stays
    transverse, longitudinal stays longitudinal).
    tstkl
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    03 Oct 2013 06:17 PM
    I remember reading that now, thanks. I only printed out section 17 and have been reading that, which is why I didn't see it when I was reviewing it again the other day.
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