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Last Post 18 Jul 2014 02:19 PM by  Mrsideways
New "Go-to" cars for each stock class - thoughts?
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RustoWRX
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07 Oct 2013 08:11 PM

    Given the changes to street tires and some of the classing changes...voice your opinions on the dominant car(s) in each class.

    To start the discussion:

    SS - Elise...can anything catch it on street tires?

    AS - no idea here...newer cayman/boxter S?

    BS - C5, S2000 (likely to be very course dependent; curious if NSX might sneak in there...)

    CS - NB Miata Sport, FRS/BRZ seem like contenders.  Any thoughts on e36M3, or NISMO350Z?

    DS - 3.2TT, 2011+ WRX

    ES - 1.8 miata R

    FS - no idea here...

    GS - ACR SRT4, Focus ST (assuming no GS/HS merge...not sure about the current status...)

    HS - Mini, Mazda 3

    mpheinitz
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    07 Oct 2013 09:25 PM
    Z0K Solstice for B-Street.
    drdisque
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    07 Oct 2013 10:49 PM

    I think the 350Z Nismo will do pretty well in CS as I think the fact that it has a lot more tire than the Miata will matter more on street tires. Course dependent of course. Even now, it's very course dependent.

    FS will probably go more towards M3's. The Mustangs will really be aching for those R-compounds.

    DS will definitely go more towards the AWD cars, leaving the RWD BMW's behind. A well-driven AWD BMW may be competitive.  (that being said, I'm planning on running a RWD BMW in DS next season).

    If the new Mazda3 is classed in HS (which it likely will be) it should be able to challenge the mini's. But as-is I think it's all Mini territory. The change doesn't shake this class up all too much I don't think.

    GS, I think the lower hp cars will be closer to the higher hp cars like the SRT4 and Focus ST, especially on tight courses where those two cars may have trouble putting power down.

    cashmo
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    07 Oct 2013 11:06 PM
    DS will definitely go more towards the AWD cars, leaving the RWD BMW's behind. 

    Please review the August Fastrack as the RWD BMW's from D-Stock are now in F-Street.  The SAC's intent was to make multiple cars competitive in each class, (most folks say it's 80% driver anyways).  Everyone has a different take on what will be the go-to cars for each.  If you're not sure what car to buy my advice would be to just buy some street tires and run what you already have.  It'll be a relatively small investment.


    drdisque
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    08 Oct 2013 01:51 AM
    Thanks, that's a huge fasttrack and I never got that far down. Actually I'm glad, as I'd much rather run in FS.

    Running what I already have was what I did this year. I'm running a Mazda 6 in STF but it's not built to class spec. Rather than drop all the money to upgrade the car to be competitive in STF (needs springs, shocks, another set of wheels/tires, sway bars, more aggressive camber, none of which I have the equipment to do myself) when I'm already sort of sick of the car, I'm just going to buy a new [used] car. Note that I'm not buying the car to be run at a National level, I just want something different from what I have now and a car that I think I'll enjoy driving. Money isn't really the limiting factor - the main issue is that I don't have space for a devoted racecar or a trailer (even a tire trailer), meaning I realistically have to run Street or ST. Backup plan if I don't find a BMW I like is a C5 (very different cars I realize). I don't fit in a Miata and oddly my legs are too long for most Subarus (knees hit the steering wheel).
    KevinLG
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    08 Oct 2013 01:02 PM
    SS - Lotus Elise, GT3 I can't see this class being particularly popular, the cars are just too out there, but we'll see I suppose.
    AS - S2k CR, C5Z? Could be very course dependent, I don't know how it'll play out to be honest
    BS - S2k, C5? Same exact story, but slower/cheaper
    CS - The Toyobaru twins are lighter/more nimble, but the RX-8 has more wheel width. The Z-cars are there too.
    DS - I can't see anything beating the Audi TT at the moment, maybe the WRX. Maybe. Probably not though.
    ES - The 99 Sport, as well as the MR2 Spyder should dominate the class. Back in the day the MR2 was nearly as fast, but with less grip it could prove to be the hot ticket. Wider wheels out back too, if that makes a difference.
    FS - At the moment I'm convinced the E46 M3 will be the car to have.
    GS - Focus ST might be the easy button, but I wouldn't count out the Celica GT/GT-S after their performance in RT2 this year at the Pro Finale, the SRT-4 ACR is also very quick on street tires.
    HS - Tough to say with the lack of an Appendix to pick through. Mazda3 or the standard Mini would be the obvious choice.
    BigEnos
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    08 Oct 2013 01:55 PM
    FS I may place bets on the Shelby Mustang. I don't know a lot about the wheel sizes available to E46 M3s, but the lack of low end torque and essentially no good alignment choices may hamper it. I don't think the BMW is much lighter than the Shelby, either.

    If the 5.0 sucks on ZIIs maybe I'll borrow my wife's 135I M-sport =)
    kyoo
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    08 Oct 2013 04:09 PM
    obviously the base Mini in HS, but the new Mazda3 sounds really promising.

    Any chance of the evo/sti making a comeback in stock class with street tires back in play?
    The Nebulizer
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    08 Oct 2013 04:16 PM
    Posted By BigEnos on 08 Oct 2013 01:55 PM
    FS I may place bets on the Shelby Mustang. I don't know a lot about the wheel sizes available to E46 M3s, but the lack of low end torque and essentially no good alignment choices may hamper it. I don't think the BMW is much lighter than the Shelby, either.

    If the 5.0 sucks on ZIIs maybe I'll borrow my wife's 135I M-sport =)

    FStreet:

    e46 M3 comes stock with either 18x8F/18x9R or 19x8F/19x9.5R. Camber and skinny front tires are the limitations for this car. And, tire wear up front is pretty horrible. It has better weight distribution and presumably has a lower center of gravity than a Shelby. 3200lbs is the lowest an e46 M3 can get in FS trim (typical options will go to more like 3250lbs ). How does that weight compare to a well setup Shelby?  I am not convinced lack of torque is a big issue with the M3 given street tires.

    I have renewed love of my car since I switched back to Stock on street tires.

    47CP
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    08 Oct 2013 04:41 PM
    FWIW, I don't know if the Shelby is the clear runner for the Best Mustang in F-Street over a 5.0. I think/guess it will end up like the current FStock - either a Shelby or 5.0 can do it if driven well enough, but neither is particularly better overall.

    DaveW

    The Nebulizer
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    08 Oct 2013 04:43 PM
    Posted By 47CP on 08 Oct 2013 04:41 PM
    FWIW, I don't know if the Shelby is the clear runner for the Best Mustang in F-Street over a 5.0. I think/guess it will end up like the current FStock - either a Shelby or 5.0 can do it if driven well enough, but neither is particularly better overall.

    DaveW

    DaveW, do you know the weight of either Mustang well prepped for the class?

    Impala SS AutoXer
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    08 Oct 2013 04:46 PM

    FWIW, My FStreet 2012 Hyundai Genesis Coupe V6 Rspec is 3260lbs (Race Trim, no driver), 19x8.0F/19x8.5R with -2 deg up front (MacStrut).   ~265HP/250ftlbs at the wheels, tops 2nd at 62 MPH.   Seems to do a decent job of putting the power down that it has.   It is a little on the wide side though (2+ inches wider than the Shelby GT)...

    Heyward and I are giving it a shot in FStreet next year, we think it'll at least be competitive...

    Shelby is around 3400 lbs, newer GT is heavier yet.   

    47CP
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    08 Oct 2013 04:57 PM
    Posted By The Nebulizer on 08 Oct 2013 04:43 PM
    Posted By 47CP on 08 Oct 2013 04:41 PM
    FWIW, I don't know if the Shelby is the clear runner for the Best Mustang in F-Street over a 5.0. I think/guess it will end up like the current FStock - either a Shelby or 5.0 can do it if driven well enough, but neither is particularly better overall.

    DaveW

    DaveW, do you know the weight of either Mustang well prepped for the class?

    No clue on the weights.  I have never put our 12 on the scales, and it is certainly not well optioned (premium interior, scoop, louvers, wing, etc)

    The Genesis is an interesting choice as well, I agree with Ed and Heyward that it will be very competitive.

    DaveW


    edfishjr
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    08 Oct 2013 05:43 PM
    Posted By RustoWRX on 07 Oct 2013 08:11 PM

    Given the changes to street tires and some of the classing changes...voice your opinions on the dominant car(s) in each class.

    To start the discussion:

    SS - Elise...can anything catch it on street tires?

    AS - no idea here...newer cayman/boxter S?

    BS - C5, S2000 (likely to be very course dependent; curious if NSX might sneak in there...)

    CS - NB Miata Sport, FRS/BRZ seem like contenders.  Any thoughts on e36M3, or NISMO350Z?

    DS - 3.2TT, 2011+ WRX

    ES - 1.8 miata R

    FS - no idea here...

    GS - ACR SRT4, Focus ST (assuming no GS/HS merge...not sure about the current status...)

    HS - Mini, Mazda 3

     

     

    Newer ('09 to '12) Cayman/Boxster S are not in Astreet. They are in Sstreet. Non-S are in AStreet.

    I think Astreet will show parity among the 'vettes: C5Z06, C6Z06, with C6Grandsport a little behind being too heavy, can't use torque/gearing advantages on street tires. I just saw a 2006 Z06 with 70k miles go for $31K

    The Nebulizer
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    08 Oct 2013 05:46 PM
    Posted By Impala SS AutoXer on 08 Oct 2013 04:46 PM

    FWIW, My FStreet 2012 Hyundai Genesis Coupe V6 Rspec is 3260lbs (Race Trim, no driver), 19x8.0F/19x8.5R with -2 deg up front (MacStrut).   ~265HP/250ftlbs at the wheels, tops 2nd at 62 MPH.   Seems to do a decent job of putting the power down that it has.   It is a little on the wide side though (2+ inches wider than the Shelby GT)...

    Heyward and I are giving it a shot in FStreet next year, we think it'll at least be competitive...

    Shelby is around 3400 lbs, newer GT is heavier yet.   

    Is the 2012 preffered for some reason over the increased power of 2013 version? I know very little about this car so I am trying to learn more. On paper it looks to be a real threat. Does it drive as well as the numbers suggest?
    Impala SS AutoXer
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    08 Oct 2013 07:54 PM

    The 2013 has about 40 more HP/Ft-lbs on a dyno...but also a 2nd gear that tops out about 6 MPH less (i.e. 56 MPH) than my car due to shorter gearing.   And I'm not convinced it'll effectively get the extra power down off the corner (it should in a straight though). So which one you'd want ('12 vs '13) is probably course dependent.   

    Car weights should be pretty close...2013 is likely a LITTLE heavier, but think 10s of lbs and not 100+.

    The car is definitely promising, although did I mention it is WIDE?      We think it'll be in the mix, but not an overdog by any stretch.   It will be a bit odd going from being the "heaviest but most powerful" in DStock to, umm, "not that" in FStreet.


    mball
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    09 Oct 2013 08:52 AM
    I hope the Lexus IS300 for DS, since that is what I have.
    mrazny
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    09 Oct 2013 11:36 AM
    93-95 bmw 325's with the winter package LSD should give G-street a pretty good run. I'm forgetting if 328's had packages for "stock" eligible LSDs or if it was just an easy case swap for oem STX solutions. If yes, with how tall 2nd goes for them, they could run 15's without too much consequence.
    BigEnos
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    09 Oct 2013 05:12 PM
    5.0 cars are heavier up front because of the engine weight and the electric power steering. I wish Ford would just put the damn battery in the trunk like BMW does, that alone would do wonders for the weight distribution.

    I've never scaled my car, either. My wheels are really light, but I still have the stock exhaust which is apparently super heavy.
    lowside67
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    09 Oct 2013 06:40 PM
    G street is going to be a tough battle for the E36... the 325IS doesnt have that much torque, especially in stock class, is heavy, and has NO camber. My money is on the Celica GT continuing to dominate, and the Civic SI as a solid second contender, and superior to the Focus ST. The Civic has a proper LSD, effective gearing, good wheel widths with lots of light aftermarket options in the size, and the ability to run crash bolts in the front in stock class.
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