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Last Post 18 Jul 2014 02:19 PM by  Mrsideways
New "Go-to" cars for each stock class - thoughts?
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Adam303
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18 Oct 2013 04:41 PM
Posted By drdisque on 07 Oct 2013 10:49 PM If the new Mazda3 is classed in HS (which it likely will be) it should be able to challenge the mini's. But as-is I think it's all Mini territory. 

You could be more right than you know. Take a look at the pic below. This is a picture of the lower strut on the 2014 Mazda3 Hatch I just picked up. Notice anything different?  Finally the Mazda3 "might" get thrown a bone and have something the Mini cannot have.   I'm not sure it will turn the Mini applecart over, but it definitely is a step in the right direction.

 

 

 

kyoo
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18 Oct 2013 04:53 PM
Posted By Adam303 on 18 Oct 2013 04:41 PM
Posted By drdisque on 07 Oct 2013 10:49 PM If the new Mazda3 is classed in HS (which it likely will be) it should be able to challenge the mini's. But as-is I think it's all Mini territory. 

You could be more right than you know. Take a look at the pic below. This is a picture of the lower strut on the 2014 Mazda3 Hatch I just picked up. Notice anything different?  Finally the Mazda3 "might" get thrown a bone and have something the Mini cannot have.   I'm not sure it will turn the Mini applecart over, but it definitely is a step in the right direction.

 

 

 

!!! Awesome! (Coming from a Mini owner too) What kind of camber are you getting at the max rate? I hope these cars are competitive, for the sake of HS

Adam303
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18 Oct 2013 10:17 PM
Posted By kyoo on 18 Oct 2013 04:53 PM
Posted By Adam303 on 18 Oct 2013 04:41 PM
Posted By drdisque on 07 Oct 2013 10:49 PM If the new Mazda3 is classed in HS (which it likely will be) it should be able to challenge the mini's. But as-is I think it's all Mini territory. 

You could be more right than you know. Take a look at the pic below. This is a picture of the lower strut on the 2014 Mazda3 Hatch I just picked up. Notice anything different?  Finally the Mazda3 "might" get thrown a bone and have something the Mini cannot have.   I'm not sure it will turn the Mini applecart over, but it definitely is a step in the right direction.

 !!! Awesome! (Coming from a Mini owner too) What kind of camber are you getting at the max rate? I hope these cars are competitive, for the sake of HS


Most cars can get -2+ with crash/camber bolts.   I think you still have to have something from the manufacture in a service manual or bulletin stating crash bolts are ok to use, particularly if they don't offer an off the shelf bolt kit. Or just a letter from someone within Mazda stating it's ok to use camber bolts in certain situations would probably suffice if nothing can be found. Camber bolts were on the list in appendix A for street class for any/all cars that could use them but I think they took that off the table so some sort of documentation would be a good idea to have on hand.

GTB/ZR-1
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23 Oct 2013 07:32 PM
TT RS in SS?
JCN
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23 Oct 2013 08:39 PM
Maybe for ProSolo. I'd vote yes if it came with DSG.
kyoo
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28 Nov 2013 02:17 AM
just curious,

are most people running the audi tt at nationals running the 3.2q version? it seems like the 2.0t could also be competitive, but maybe in the real world the power/torque is down too much to make up for any weight benefit? Either way, both quattros only come with DSG right? Is there a reason the nats drivers usually seem to drive the 08?
CSP21
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28 Nov 2013 11:41 AM
The competitive ones have all been 3.2L which are all quattros. The DSG is optional. They only made the 3.2 in 08-09. The 2011+ 2.0T made better power but you can not defeat the stability/traction control.
Alan Dahl
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13 Jan 2014 08:11 PM
No love for the Fiesta ST in G street? It's only 180 hp (1st and 2nd gears, 197 above that) vs the Focus's 257 but it handles awesome and you'll be able to put all the power down. I'm expecting good things from mine this season.
davebs14
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13 Jan 2014 11:22 PM
The R56 I ran in HS had nearly a degree negative. I prefer the -3.0 it had in STF lol
drdisque
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14 Jan 2014 12:00 AM
Posted By Alan Dahl on 13 Jan 2014 08:11 PM
No love for the Fiesta ST in G street? It's only 180 hp (1st and 2nd gears, 197 above that) vs the Focus's 257 but it handles awesome and you'll be able to put all the power down. I'm expecting good things from mine this season.

Folks are probably loathe to declare a car a "go to" car that they haven't seen yet on course. Ask us in a year

SVThis
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11 Feb 2014 02:08 PM
How does the 1LE 5th gen Camaro stack up in FS?
jcp907
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11 Feb 2014 05:17 PM
Posted By SVThis on 11 Feb 2014 02:08 PM
How does the 1LE 5th gen Camaro stack up in FS?

Hmmm. 

10" wide wheels That's 295-305 up front...19-20"  Does anyone make a competitive tire that will fit?

And...3860 lbs that's a lot of weight.

I believe the go to car for FS is the 11-13 E92 M3 with 9" front 10" rear wheels.  A lot of tire under great suspension.


TrqlessWonder
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12 Feb 2014 09:36 PM
It (fiesta) could be interesting and competitive.  But I don't think it's a sure thing.  Some course dependency owing to the short 2nd gear.  I'd give it equal odds with the newest GTI.  Interesting car, haven't seen too many run, but it looks good on paper, with a meaningful shortcoming (weight for the GTI).  Good luck with yours, though and have fun anyway.
cbramey
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12 Feb 2014 10:47 PM
86-7 c4 vette
Dave Schotz
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12 Feb 2014 11:00 PM
Chris, what class is the 86-87 C4 going to be in? Is the '89 C4 not in the same class?

Thanks,
Dave
cbramey
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14 Feb 2014 12:26 PM
86-7 is going to bstreet, along with the 89. Gearing, weight and front geometry argue heavily in favor of the 86-7, despite the success of several hot shoes historically in 89's.
93Rubie
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14 Feb 2014 10:25 PM

I fail to see how the 86-87 cars will fair better than other C4's? I'll give you the minor geometry differences but gearing and weight?

At the MOST maybe 100lbs difference. Which is significant but I don't think its night and day. 

 Gearing, I don't think so, the best 86-87 cars can do is a 3.07 rear end. 89's could get 3.54 and many of the later cars are 3.45.

Even comparing 4+3 to ZF6 with the rear end differences: 1st gear (4+3)=8.84 (ZF6 with 3.45)=9.24 (These are overall ratios to the tire).

2nd Gear (4+3)=5.86 (ZF5 with 3.45)=6.21 So with the 3.54 it would be even worse. The later cars have shorter gearing. Advantage.

Even with an automatic (ALL ratios in the box are the same regardless of year or model of transmission) so with a 3.07 rear end 1st gear=9.39 2nd gear=5.00. Yes, you do get some from having a torque converter, granted.

IDK, about you guys but I run 2nd for auto-x almost all the time, only time I'm in 1st is for launch, then its 2nd gear all the time. Most SCCA courses top out in the low 60's. Which is perfect for a LT1, I'm right in the thick of the power band in 2nd gear 99% of the time and can rev enough to hit 65+ on the limiter in 2nd. By the numbers a 89 Z51 3.54 ZF6 car is THE C4 to have. Stiff suspension, big tires, good gearing and transmission, have to do with L98 but its a good engine, and its lighter than a 90 Z51 or the later Z07 cars.

Besides you guys are forgetting one VERY important item. TIRES, the biggest competitive street tire you can run on a 84-87 is a 255/40/17. (I would recommend the ZII over the Rival). Being as 88-later had 17" wheels they can run 18" wheels. I can put 285/30/18 under my 93 Z07. That is a huge difference in tire. The tire rule is +1 or -1 for your stock wheels 84-87 had stock 16", biggest you can go is 17"

 IF C4's are competitive (which I doubt) it will be the 89 Z51 cars that have the best chance. Keep in mind they did well against the non-CR S2000's but that was on Hoosiers not street tires AND you have the C5 non-Z06 (FRC is LEGAL) to worry about. Granted the C5 cannot run as much tire due to 8.5" wide front wheel compared to 9.5" on the  C4's. That being said the C5 has a WAY more advanced chassis and suspension design.

Just my 2 cents, take it for what its worth. I've been running my C4 on street tires from day one of auto-x with it. I've impressed more than a few folks on how fast a stock class C4 on street tires can go. By all means however, if you can run a 86-87 or hell any C4 and be competitive and win in B Street by all means do it!!!

 

Dave Schotz
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14 Feb 2014 11:48 PM
93rubie, nice points, my issue when I drove the lt1 cars vs. l98 ways that the lt1 cars felt anemic in the Tq dept.

I also am not sure 18's have an advantage vs 17's, especially in a street tire.

Is there a tire size limit, or is it still the biggest you can fit on the wheel? If so, now an 87 car could run a 17x9.5 and 275/40.

I may have to dust off some l98 parts, and find a nice c4 again!

Although, truth be told, I do believe the best bet could be the FRC cars, which you could go to a 17" rear tire and make up for the gearing disadvantage!

Peace,
Dave
madame_toussleau
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15 Feb 2014 11:03 AM
Posted By Dave Schotz on 14 Feb 2014 11:48 PM

Is there a tire size limit, or is it still the biggest you can fit on the wheel? If so, now an 87 car could run a 17x9.5 and 275/40.

Not really - Take a look at the hot tires for a 17 x 9.5" wheel.  255 is it if you want a Rival or Dunlop

 275-40-17 gets you a Nitto NT05 , Kumho XS,  Toyo R1R or a Falkin 615. 

That's why the 18" rim   helps. Rivals come in 275 and  Star Specs in 285's for 18" wheels. 

As a C4 owner , I'm thinking 18"  wheels are the way to go.

 

-Barbara Seeger - New England Region

 

 
93Rubie
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15 Feb 2014 07:03 PM

It might FEEL quicker due to the L98 having a lower peak TQ RPM. The LT1 has a broader torque curve. I had my 93 dynoed and BONE stock with a Street class legal cat back I made 246hp and 304tq at the rear tire on a MUSTANG dyno. That translates to about 300hp and 345tq at the crank. L98 is a great engine but I don't see a huge advantage over it for the LT1 for auto-x. The biggest thing is the fact the 88-91 Z51/Z07 cars came with the same basic suspension as the later 92-95 Z07's but had the much stiffer front spring. Which is a good thing and where I think it makes the 89 with it being lighter and stiffer the better auto-x'er. Then again on street tires this may all be purely academic.

As barbra pointed out the 17"s available in 275/40/17 are 2nd rate tires compared to the Rival or ZII's. Best your going to do on those is the 255/40/17 which again pales in comparison to the 18" sizes available for the 88-later cars. 

She mentioned the only decent tires in 275/40/17 as these: Nitto NT05 , Kumho XS,  Toyo R1R or a Falkin 615.

I would take 255/40/17 ZII's over those and I bet the ZII's are faster even in a smaller tire. Also, take a look at the Toyo specs. on Tire Rack, the tread width is only 9.9" The ZII in 255/40/17 is 10". Food for thought.

The FRC's will not be using 17's out back for the above mentioned reason: tires. If I had a C5FRC I would be running 18's all around with a 275/35/18 stuffed onto the front 8.5"s and probably the same out back on the 9.5's. That or the 255/40/17 up front and a 275/35/18 out back. I think the C5FRC could be a good car for BStreet compared to the S2000 but again course design will be factor in that. Gearing is not that much different from the C4's with the ZF6, the C4's have a bit better gearing but its slight.

 

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