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Last Post 10 Dec 2015 09:16 PM by  Z3papa
Proposal combining STS and STC
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davebs14
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10 Sep 2014 12:25 PM
Posted By coneracer on 09 Sep 2014 07:40 AM
From what I heard, no matter what you do, you can't get the rsx to handle well. Not sure why and maybe if you spend mega bucks on the suspension it would be competitive.
Ron Williams

Handling well is a relative term in STF.  The Mazda2 seems to handle pretty well when tuned. The mini handles pretty well. The Mazda3 handles fairly well for a fat heavy car. Brian's Corolla seems to be handling better this year, but I wouldn't say it handles well.

 

What I'm seeing in the RSX makind 225-235whp pretty easily with the intake, header, exhaust and reflash. And torque numbers in the 170-180 range at the wheels. This would mean the car makes 260+ hp at the crank. Sounds like an overdog in a class for cars that are no faster than HSR time wise.

I think the car would handle just fine for the class. It would be a great fit with the also rans of STC...IMO of course     But maybe it will take someone building one and campaigning one and crushing the class to see. If it does then what? Move it and watch the car die like the neon in STC? Or watch STF die a slow death with honda having yet another class?  

Just curious...sorry for the tread derail. I would have like to see the EF moved to STS and been done


ratt_finkel
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10 Sep 2014 06:56 PM
Posted By coneracer on 09 Sep 2014 07:40 AM
From what I heard, no matter what you do, you can't get the rsx to handle well. Not sure why and maybe if you spend mega bucks on the suspension it would be competitive.
Ron Williams

This, and all the power in the world won't help with that open diff.  I think the type-s is a non factor.

I'm against the proposal.  I was under the impression that STC was created to give a permanent place for the Civic to play.  STS has been and should be healthy with a CRX and Miata.  And finally, that STF was created for all the heavier cars that the Civic displaced.  I certainly never predicted STF to be the cars that it is.  And now that it's healthy, that's great.  But there are still a multitude of popular cars with no place to play in ST.

ron
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18 Sep 2014 05:17 PM
So there appears to be a massive sale going on in the civic group. Does this mean that for sure this is going to happen. I'd like to know soon, as to begin prep for next year. Anyone privy to that kind of information?
cashmo
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18 Sep 2014 08:59 PM

From the August Fastrack...

 Recommended Items for 2015

Per committee recommendation and with SEB concurrence, the following subjects will be referred to the Board of
Directors for approval. Address all comments, both for and against, to the Solo Events Board, via the form at www.
soloeventsboard.com.

Street Touring
#12465 STS and STC Combining proposal

Effective 2015, all cars currently classed in STC will be re-classed to STS.

So the answer is, probably.

 

ron
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18 Sep 2014 09:40 PM
Thanks Jeff, I thought probably but I also thought that nationals was well attended by both classes and maybe there would be a chance. I guess I'll buy a car that might be the car to have for next year and see what happens and then sell it If I need to.
Ron Williams
Adam303
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18 Sep 2014 11:18 PM
Posted By davebs14 on 07 Sep 2014 09:16 PM
  If they JUST moved the civics then that would give the RSX-S a place to compete and not obliterate a healthy STF class as well. Nothing like a car with 200hp stock that has a world of aftermarket support and weighs in around the mid 2500 range in fighting trim (or better).

Dave, I think your mid 2,500 lb estimate is way too light. I got the RSX-S pegged at mid 2,800's in stock form from official online sources. So unless it carrying a 75 lb battery and 100 lb seats (each) there is no way it's dropping  300 lbs in STF trim. I'd say a more accurate STF weight would be around 2,700 lbs unless you know something I don't. 

As far as the power goes, yes it makes great power for the class, but as Jeremy pointed out the open diff will heavily neuter the power advantage.  We're making 150-160 hp/tq at the wheels and struggling to get the power down so I imagine a lot of time in a fully bolted RSX-S would be spent at 3/4 throttle or less trying to get that inside tire to hook up.  200 whp is no better than 150 whp if you can only put down 75% of it. 

Then of course you have the crappy suspension design ( so I hear). I think when you add it all up, I see a good STF car (especially for power dominated courses with several digs and straights), but I don't see a class overdog. I've been wrong before though, guess time will tell. 

 

 


ot81to
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20 Sep 2014 12:09 AM

Posted by Chris Bailey on another forum: 

"Many of the items that make the base RSX and Type-S differ in weight (header, exhaust, brake rotors, sway bars, and seats) are replaceable in ST*, so the weight difference is fairly small in ST actually. (My STX Type-S was at 2590 lbs. near diminishing returns category, where a base might make 2550-60.) Also, when you add a header and tune to the Type-S, you can change the vtec engagement and torque crossover between cams to make a larger amount of midrange torque than the base. Not much, but once you've essentially taken the base's advantages away, the significant top-end advantage probably makes the Type-S the better choice. Plus, the 05-06 Type-S has a 4.7 final drive and better cams that changes the acceleration difference as well."

Adam303
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20 Sep 2014 08:53 AM

Thanks for the response Justin, I think I see what's going on here. The early RSX-S is rated at a curb weight of 2,766.


http://www.edmunds.com/acura/rsx/20...tyle=18974

The cars got heavier throughout their 2002-2006 production cycle (not surprising) and later models had a curb of 2,840


http://www.edmunds.com/acura/rsx/20...=100613226

 

 

ot81to
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20 Sep 2014 09:12 PM

I hope not, because I'm pretty sure Bailey's RSX-S was a 2006.

jwharnish
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02 Nov 2014 06:44 PM
The Solo Board is suppose to be voting on this proposal this weekend (11/1). If this is correct, posting the results on the proposal would be appreciated.
ron
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04 Nov 2014 09:37 AM
I did some checking around and found nothing about the seb rulings yet. Would be nice to know. Sent my letter in and didn't see it listed in the fastrack with the others.
Ron
brentglad
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21 Nov 2014 05:47 PM
Well... According to Rick Ruth, and the 2015 PAX, it is so. No more STC, no more Civics. It's been fun while it lasted, but I unfortunately will most likely not be renewing my SCCA membership and moving onto other things.
Sonoma GT
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21 Nov 2014 08:24 PM
This changes my plans for Nationals, the Pro Finale, the west coast events, etc... I'm not going to haul around a car with a 100+lb weight penalty and let the weather decide my odds of taking home a trophy. Looks like I have some free time to fill. How about we take our now useless autocross hatches to the track?
ron
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22 Nov 2014 02:43 PM
They aren't useless, they are still competitive, just not the nth degree car to have anymore. Still a great car to have and compete in.
Bigoc1655
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06 Aug 2015 05:19 PM
I just purchased a st civic for a great $ fully prepped so this is the reason why I'm seeing son many for sale. What does this mean actually I'll have to compete against crx's amd miata's I think that's great but i know there is more to this can someone plz fill me in remember I'm new to all this so Pl break it down in a way I will understand thanks guys
drdisque
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06 Aug 2015 05:47 PM
Yeah, it means you will compete against CRX's and Miatas and from the national event results I've seen, it has been much ado about nothing, a well prepped Civic is still a fairly deadly weapon in STS.

I think a lot of people just used this as an excuse to dump a 25 year old race car that they were tired of.
Bigoc1655
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12 Aug 2015 05:50 PM
Thank you yes I kind of agree with u I personally love the ef civic and would hate to ser it pushed out just cause it's an older car. Still a well prepped ef can compete and win in STS!
Bigoc1655
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12 Aug 2015 05:52 PM
What is this weight penalty I'm hearing of though how have the rules changed exactly?
sgreer78
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12 Aug 2015 10:09 PM
Not a literal penalty, the Civic is ~100lbs heavier than the CRX.
Bigoc1655
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12 Aug 2015 10:51 PM
Ohh thx for clearing that up. Still with its longer wheelbase it's gotta be a lil better in the sweepers or is the ef civic no longer competitive in this class in your opinion
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