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Last Post 13 Dec 2013 11:56 AM by  Built-By-Bones
For STX, 15x9 w/225 tire or 17x8 with 245 tire?
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OasisTan
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03 Dec 2013 04:09 AM
    15x9 with 225/45/15 or 17x7.5 with 245/40/17
    15x9 with 225 tire (10)
     83%
    17x8 with 245 tire (2)
     17%

    Which direction would be preferable for the following scenario that I have contemplated over the years......  the choices will be 15x9 on a 225/45/15 or a 17x7.5 or 17x8 with a 245/40/17.....

    Funny thing is that the different wheel size would require a different model due to brake clearance.  Car options - Mini Cooper S(with JCW Tuning kit, smaller brakes that allow for 15" wheels) vs Mini Cooper JCW(full model that comes with the Big Brakes) - OS GIKEN diff for front grip.  

    The smaller/shorter wheel/tire setup would allow for the wheel to stick out a bit up front without severe rubbing, which is why the 15x9 is possible up front. 

     On the 17" setup, the HP/TQ is very roughly 215hp 225tq  with the car weighing in around 2475lbs.  

    On the 15" option HP/TQ would be roughly 205hp 215tq with the car weighing in around 2425lbs.

    Experienced input highly appreciated! If someone would make a 245/40/15, the answer to this question would be obvious.  Until then....

     

    ron
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    03 Dec 2013 07:30 AM
    Probably the biggest issue you will face is that one of things you cannot change is gearing. The difference in overall tire diameter between the two is quite a bit, and may sway your decision. Why the mini again? Lot's of other competative options out there that fit the wider wheels better.
    mrazny
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    03 Dec 2013 11:46 AM
    What 15x9 did you find for the Mini? Or is this gonna be a custom wheel...

     

    EDIT:  I keep thinking the mini does a 5x120 Bimmer fitment, not the 4x100...

    mitchman
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    03 Dec 2013 02:32 PM
    You tried this once already…now you're planning to try it again?
    I thought you were the one that proved a FWD can't be competitive in STX?
    OasisTan
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    03 Dec 2013 03:06 PM

    delete

     


    OasisTan
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    03 Dec 2013 03:14 PM
    Posted By mitchman on 03 Dec 2013 02:32 PM
    You tried this once already…now you're planning to try it again?
    I thought you were the one that proved a FWD can't be competitive in STX?

    Still undecided.  The R53 was WAY down on TQ compared to the newer R56 so that would help for sure.  Another big downfall to my STX Mini was that my suspension was never even close to right, bouncing terribly through sweepers.  It was only my 3rd year and I basically knew nothing about setup and wasn't able to get any help from the coilover manufacture unfortunately to help solve the issue.  One last thing, I would go with a much better front diff in OS Giken. 

     

    Audii-Dudii
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    03 Dec 2013 03:21 PM
    I'm contemplating something similar, except the two choices are 16x8 with a 245/45-16 (or 225/45-16!) tire or 17x8 with a 245/40-17. Gearing isn't a significant issue in this instance, as the car will still run to the mid-60s in second with the shorter tire v. high-60s with the taller tire, so the primary concern is whether one gains enough from running a shorter tire (or in the case of the 225/45-16, a much shorter tire) in terms of lowering the CG than it loses in transitional elements from the longer sidewall.

    Oh, and the car is AWD, has decent power and torque, weighs in the high 3200 range, and I already own the wheels, which are leftover from another project...
    OasisTan
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    03 Dec 2013 03:31 PM
    Posted By ron williams on 03 Dec 2013 07:30 AM
    Probably the biggest issue you will face is that one of things you cannot change is gearing. The difference in overall tire diameter between the two is quite a bit, and may sway your decision. Why the mini again? Lot's of other competative options out there that fit the wider wheels better.
    I definitely like running Mini's and STX is just kind of a stop over for 2014 for me I think.  My real hope is the the SEB will create a class for modern higher HP FWD cars.  After 2014, now that the SEB has destroyed stock class, there wont be a single class in the SCCA that will be competitive on R-Comps or race tires for a modern higher HP FWD car.  Are we really going to alienate modern high HP FWD cars in the SCCA?  That should be a new thread in itself....

    mrazny
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    03 Dec 2013 06:27 PM
    Posted By OasisTan on 03 Dec 2013 03:31 PM
    Posted By ron williams on 03 Dec 2013 07:30 AM
    Probably the biggest issue you will face is that one of things you cannot change is gearing. The difference in overall tire diameter between the two is quite a bit, and may sway your decision. Why the mini again? Lot's of other competative options out there that fit the wider wheels better.
    I definitely like running Mini's and STX is just kind of a stop over for 2014 for me I think.  My real hope is the the SEB will create a class for modern higher HP FWD cars.  After 2014, now that the SEB has destroyed stock class, there wont be a single class in the SCCA that will be competitive on R-Comps or race tires for a modern higher HP FWD car.  Are we really going to alienate modern high HP FWD cars in the SCCA?  That should be a new thread in itself....

    i think you meant to include "unmolested" in your premise...  SMF will always be waiting for you.  I know the counterpoint is that the classing doesn't support it yet, but how many "modern higher HP FWD cars" are waiting to be autocrossed?  I'm not a high proponent of "build it and they will come" classing right now...


    OasisTan
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    03 Dec 2013 07:00 PM
    Posted By mrazny on 03 Dec 2013 06:27 PM
    Posted By OasisTan on 03 Dec 2013 03:31 PM
    Posted By ron williams on 03 Dec 2013 07:30 AM
    Probably the biggest issue you will face is that one of things you cannot change is gearing. The difference in overall tire diameter between the two is quite a bit, and may sway your decision. Why the mini again? Lot's of other competative options out there that fit the wider wheels better.
    I definitely like running Mini's and STX is just kind of a stop over for 2014 for me I think.  My real hope is the the SEB will create a class for modern higher HP FWD cars.  After 2014, now that the SEB has destroyed stock class, there wont be a single class in the SCCA that will be competitive on R-Comps or race tires for a modern higher HP FWD car.  Are we really going to alienate modern high HP FWD cars in the SCCA?  That should be a new thread in itself....

    i think you meant to include "unmolested" in your premise...  SMF will always be waiting for you.  I know the counterpoint is that the classing doesn't support it yet, but how many "modern higher HP FWD cars" are waiting to be autocrossed?  I'm not a high proponent of "build it and they will come" classing right now...


    How many are waiting?  I dunno, I do know that we had 40+ entrants in GS back in the day before they moved the Mini to DS and the TT's started taking over.  One thing is for sure, if there isn't a class created there won't be ANY modern higher HP FWD cars autocrossing competitively on r-comps or stickier(OK, maybe you can argue SMF).  Do we really want to make SP only about low HP fwd and rear drive and exclude modern FWD? 

     

    My thoughts are, does the SCCA want to send this message?  I personally don't like driving Mustangs, especially not on street tires.  Pick 100 people and have them run a 400+hp F-Street classed Mustang and then run a G-SP Mini and see which one is more fun.  95 out of 100 would say the Mini if I had to guess.  The SCCA is suppose to help INDUCE fun, not hinder it with their classing(another issue as well imo).   To exclude modern higher HP FWD cars on r-comps from the SCCA would be missing an entire cast of potential competitors.  All just IMO though.


    drdisque
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    03 Dec 2013 10:06 PM
    You could also argue that the competitive cars in SMF aren't "modern high horsepower". The easy button there seems to be a 20 year old civic with around 200 hp.

    I do think that perhaps DSP can be made a place to play for more FWD cars, but that would require finding a place for the BMW's to go.
    whitecivic
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    03 Dec 2013 10:30 PM

    Posted By drdisque on 03 Dec 2013 10:06 PM

      
    I do think that perhaps DSP can be made a place to play for more FWD cars, but that would require finding a place for the BMW's to go.

     

     

    You can Put the BMW's in BSP to have more chassis choices for the BMW M3. My .02

     

    Ben



    ron
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    04 Dec 2013 06:56 AM
    Come on Craig, help revitalize stc, they consistantly turn times just as fast as stx.
    ron
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    04 Dec 2013 07:41 AM
    Ok so you want the Mini contingency, new base Mini in G street.
    OasisTan
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    04 Dec 2013 06:58 PM
    Posted By ron williams on 04 Dec 2013 07:41 AM
    Ok so you want the Mini contingency, new base Mini in G street.

    haha, no, it really isn't about anything more than enjoying the car.  The new Mini is a good bit larger and will be heavier as well.  That, and its Fugly. lol  I just want to have fun, and, running a Mini in STX and eventually SP or SMF class sounds like fun to me.

     


    SIMMONS-RACING
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    10 Dec 2013 11:48 AM
    Posted By mitchman on 03 Dec 2013 02:32 PM

    You tried this once already…now you're planning to try it again?

    I thought you were the one that proved a FWD can't be competitive in STX?

    Have you looked at the results from Stx?

     

    The Type R is Very fast in Stx.

     

    Simmons



    OasisTan
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    10 Dec 2013 07:42 PM
    Posted By SIMMONS-RACING on 10 Dec 2013 11:48 AM
    Posted By mitchman on 03 Dec 2013 02:32 PM

    You tried this once already…now you're planning to try it again?

    I thought you were the one that proved a FWD can't be competitive in STX?

    Have you looked at the results from Stx?

     

    The Type R is Very fast in Stx.

     

    Simmons



    I have, gave me a sliver of hope.

    Built-By-Bones
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    11 Dec 2013 11:49 AM

    Not Auto-x experience, this applies to road racing and the last few years at Pikes Peak

    And I have never run 17's only 16's on SSR's. Tires have been either Hoosier (in R6 or A6 flavors), Federals (not available in the US) or Continentals (rebranded R6's with a slightly stiffer construction)

    The 15" wheel and 225's are the better option

    - bigger contact patch than the 16's

    -marginally better gearing (would be arguable on an auto-x course)

    - marginally better on weight

    - cheaper tires, and more availability of used tires if you go that way

     

    Talk to Todd at TCE for what you need for the brakes. You can use OEM rear brakes but have to grind the heck out of them. Front brakes are the 4 piston Willwoods on the 12" (I think) rotor, Todd has a slightly bigger rotor, but it wont fit the 949 wheels I have been using. The 949 wheels did need custom spacers made, to clear the KW coilovers, and to accommodate the hub centric wheels - if going to 15x9, you will need to check the back spacing, or you will possibly need 3 piece wheels to get the back spacing you need. Depending on spring rate, and roll bar stiffness, you may still encounter minor wheel rub on the front plastic fender trim. Can you trim in STX? or just carry spare fender trim and replace as needed. You will rub wheel well trim up front on full lock (slow hairpins). 

    Will be following your thread. Going back to Pikes Peak in 2014 (with 2 cars for now), and one of the upgrades to the Mini might be 3 piece wheels so I can fit 275's. Anyone need 5 sets of SSR's  ??

    OasisTan
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    11 Dec 2013 09:18 PM
    Posted By Built-By-Bones on 11 Dec 2013 11:49 AM

    Not Auto-x experience, this applies to road racing and the last few years at Pikes Peak

    And I have never run 17's only 16's on SSR's. Tires have been either Hoosier (in R6 or A6 flavors), Federals (not available in the US) or Continentals (rebranded R6's with a slightly stiffer construction)

    The 15" wheel and 225's are the better option

    - bigger contact patch than the 16's

    -marginally better gearing (would be arguable on an auto-x course)

    - marginally better on weight

    - cheaper tires, and more availability of used tires if you go that way

     

    Talk to Todd at TCE for what you need for the brakes. You can use OEM rear brakes but have to grind the heck out of them. Front brakes are the 4 piston Willwoods on the 12" (I think) rotor, Todd has a slightly bigger rotor, but it wont fit the 949 wheels I have been using. The 949 wheels did need custom spacers made, to clear the KW coilovers, and to accommodate the hub centric wheels - if going to 15x9, you will need to check the back spacing, or you will possibly need 3 piece wheels to get the back spacing you need. Depending on spring rate, and roll bar stiffness, you may still encounter minor wheel rub on the front plastic fender trim. Can you trim in STX? or just carry spare fender trim and replace as needed. You will rub wheel well trim up front on full lock (slow hairpins). 

    Will be following your thread. Going back to Pikes Peak in 2014 (with 2 cars for now), and one of the upgrades to the Mini might be 3 piece wheels so I can fit 275's. Anyone need 5 sets of SSR's  ??

    Thanks for the input Grant!  Are you guys running the R53 still or are you in an R56?  Hope to see you around some time next summer!!!!  Maybe I'll have to come out to Pikes Peak and see you guys in action!  

    What size are your SSR's?  16x7's?  If so, the HS Mini's will eat them up I am sure since the -1" wheel diameter is now an option

     


    CSP21
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    12 Dec 2013 10:12 AM
    Not to cause too much thread drift as I offer little in terms of the Mini wheel preference. Just curious why you think the higher HP FWD is dead in stock/street. The Mini S is currently, but he Focus and Fiesta ST are in GS and should be at the top with the Celica. With time I could see the MS3 going there. While I realize these are probably not cars that particularly interest you, I'm not sure I can agree the higher HP FWDs are dead in stock?
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