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Last Post 04 Mar 2014 10:18 AM by  gary p
2014 Contingency Programs
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Adam303
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03 Mar 2014 12:13 PM
Posted By sjfehr on 03 Mar 2014 11:24 AM
Posted By Adam303 on 02 Mar 2014 01:45 PM
Posted By sjfehr on 02 Mar 2014 01:28 PM
Is it really that hard for Hankook to email an invoice before they ship?

That won't be good enough. Tires need to be in stock and ready to ship through retail channels 4/30/14. See my above post for rule. 


Shipping from China?  No, that's not enough for eligibility; the containers would have to actually arrive and be distributed for that.  But a little communication from Hankook would at least let people plan and know whether to wait or buy something else. 


Exactly what I'm saying. I don't think consumers here are going to be putting their hands on "New RS3's" anytime soon. If that was the case surely Hankook would be promoting the new tire on their website ect and getting people excited about the arrival of this new tire. 

 

sjfehr
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03 Mar 2014 12:18 PM

Hankook not making an annoucement is fairly meaningless; they have an utter lack of communication about these things, even when it flies in the face of all conventional wisdom.  It's really bizarre for a company in this day & age, but based on past performance, it's very likely TireRack will break open the next container in a week or two and it'll be full of new RS-3s.  

MrAWD
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03 Mar 2014 04:54 PM
How much we really know about the new tires? If they are going to have same thread pattern, similar (close enough) compound, than they will not be affected by the 13.3.B.4. If that is the case, current version was already eligible for the 2014 competition, so the new tire if they (as they I guess thing between Hankook and SCCA) are not affected by any of the above, even if the "new" tire doesn't arrive on time, would we still be able to use it for competition?

Fedja
ps. for those wondering what 13.3.B.4 is:
4. Material Change: Tires which previously met the eligiblity requirements
that undergo a significant compound change, tread pattern
change, or other significant redesign reset the requirement for eligibility
described in Section 13.3.B.
sjfehr
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03 Mar 2014 05:26 PM
Posted By Fedja Jeleskovic on 03 Mar 2014 04:54 PM
How much we really know about the new tires? If they are going to have same thread pattern, similar (close enough) compound, than they will not be affected by the 13.3.B.4. If that is the case, current version was already eligible for the 2014 competition, so the new tire if they (as they I guess thing between Hankook and SCCA) are not affected by any of the above, even if the "new" tire doesn't arrive on time, would we still be able to use it for competition?

Fedja
ps. for those wondering what 13.3.B.4 is:
4. Material Change: Tires which previously met the eligiblity requirements
that undergo a significant compound change, tread pattern
change, or other significant redesign reset the requirement for eligibility
described in Section 13.3.B.

Chris Harvey posted this last week on another forum:

Here's what I can confirm on the Hankook R-S3 as of today. The tread pattern and sidewall of the tire will remain the same, only the compound is being revised for improved wet and low temp traction. We (Tire Rack) will identify the tire as R-S3 Version 2. Since the sidewall and tire label will not change, the key identifier will be the four digit build date on the sidewall of the tire. Any R-S3's produced in 2014 (XX14) are Version 2 tires with the enhanced compound. 

Production is under way now and we expect a wide range of sizes to arrive via container shipments in April. Hankook is fully aware of the SCCA Solo requirements and we expect them to make the April 30th cut-off barring some unforeseen issue. The tires can be ordered currently by contacting us via phone and requesting the Version 2 or online after they appear later this week.


gary p
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03 Mar 2014 06:40 PM
Posted By TS on 02 Mar 2014 02:11 PM
I talked with SCCA and although Toyo wasn't happy with the tread wear change, they cut the program due to budget cuts.

That's interesting news regarding Toyo as they cut funding for SCCA Solo and Road Race, but certainly have a healthy Contingency Awards Program over at NASA Time Trials and Road Race. Here's the link: http://www.nasaproracing.com/contingency.

Perhaps they believe they get a better return on their investment at NASA?

 

It's not exactly that simple.  First of all, the Toyo NASA contingency program is only for their various R-comp models.  It's easier to justify an R-comp contingency program because you're entire sales plan revolves around getting racers to buy your tire.  Rarely does a street tire's overall market success depend on having autocrossers buy the tire. 

That said, it's true that sometimes a contingency program is used in an attempt to bring credibility to a particular brand or model.  Once that credibility has been established, however, the program value to the company diminishes.  At this point the R1R has been well established as great choice for certain applications and will likely continue to be used by many competitors even though the contingency is gone.  Any resulting lost sales are likely to be barely perceptible in the greater scheme of things.

 

Secondly,  NASA's classing recognizes the differences in the performance potential of various R-comp tires. A company like Toyo, who's R-comp tires aren't as aggressive as say Hoosier's, can still be a viable competitive option because their tires aren't assessed as many "prep points."  For example, in NASA Time Trials, a Hoosier A6 is 13 points, a Hoosier R6 or Kumho V710 is 10 points, a Toyo RR is 9 points, and a Toyo R888 or RA1 is only 7 points. You could see why they would be more likely to put a contingency program there than say SCCA Solo for SP/SM/Stock where nobody would use their R-comps anyway. 

TS
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04 Mar 2014 02:20 AM
Very good points you brought up Gary!

It's true that NASA uses a point system that SCCA doesn't use that could make several different tires brands winners, even with lower grip levels.

It also makes me wonder the whole story of why a manufacturer would drop they're sponsorship after several years? I know of course it all comes down to a budget and return on investment decision, plus the administrative side of the Club, were we organized and easy to deal with for the sponsor or were we difficult? I'm just asking the questions because we all value sponsorships and it seems that they are decreasing, even more so this year. Could we as the Club do something to help attract new companies and keep the existing sponsors happy? I think those are questions we need to ask.

Tim
gary p
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04 Mar 2014 10:18 AM
Posted By TS on 04 Mar 2014 02:20 AM
It also makes me wonder the whole story of why a manufacturer would drop they're sponsorship after several years? I know of course it all comes down to a budget and return on investment decision, plus the administrative side of the Club, were we organized and easy to deal with for the sponsor or were we difficult? I'm just asking the questions because we all value sponsorships and it seems that they are decreasing, even more so this year. Could we as the Club do something to help attract new companies and keep the existing sponsors happy? I think those are questions we need to ask.

I go back to my original post for one possible answer: The proliferation of National events.  More events = more potential winners = more potential expense for a contingency program.

 

Also, I don't believe for a minute that Toyo isn't more than a little irked about the R1R being legislated out of viability. Professional decorum dictates that they temper their statements, however. They don't want to burn bridges.

 

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