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Last Post 28 Sep 2014 08:33 PM by  trippinbillies40
Actual 2014 Cincy Class Structure
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Catch-22
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06 Mar 2014 10:21 AM

    When you register for PE1 you'll notice a note at the top of the page breaking out 10 indexed "Super Classes."  If your goal is more competition and fewer classes, register for the appropriate one.

    With PE1 also being a Great Lakes divisional this complicates things a bit, as if you are running for Divisional points you'll need to register in your regular class.  If you don't care about divisional points, you can register in an indexed class and it doesn't matter.  If you plan to run for Cincy points in an indexed class but also divisional points in your class, I guess you need to decide which is more important for this single event.  I suspect the number of people this actually applies to will be minimal.

    Both the indexed classes and the regular rulebook classes will be offered in an attempt to not force the indexed classes on people, so we will have way. way, way too many classes to deal with.  But the hope is that the 10 Super Classes catch on and effectively obsolete all of the smaller classes that only have one or two people ever registered.

    I suggest getting in an index and running there all the time unless you have a regular class that is normally well attended.  Competition makes you better.  Competition is FUN!

     
    Regional Classes
    SO - Street Open - all Street class cars and will be PAX based.
    SRO - Street Race Open - all Street R cars and will be PAX based.
    STO - Street Touring Open - all ST cars and will be PAX based.
    SPO - Street Prepared Open - all Street Prepared cars and will be PAX based.
    SMO - Street Modified Open - all Street Modified cars and will be PAX based.
    PO - Prepared Open - all Prepared cars and will be PAX based.
    MO - Modified Open - all Modified cars and will be PAX based.
    T - Tire Index - all non-Street cars on street tires and will be PAX based.  In addition to the PAX of each car there will be a blanket PAX added to the class like in 2013.
    X - Pro Index class.
    N - Novice -  for all people participating in their 1-3 autocross event.  PAX based

     

     

    trippinbillies40
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    06 Mar 2014 11:24 AM
    Jim Z
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    06 Mar 2014 11:53 AM

    What lettering will be required on the car for the Open indexed classes? For instance, if our regular class is CSR, do we run these letters, or do we put SRO on the car?

    Are there going to be parallel Ladies index classes, or will there be a single overall Ladies Index class like OVR will be doing?

    Catch-22
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    06 Mar 2014 12:37 PM
    Shari/Nathan need to answer the L question. My thought was one L index for all classes since we never have more than a few L entrants anyway, but it is their choice. My guess would be that if the ladies ask for an L index they'll get it.

    I sincerely hope we don't run parallel L classes to the above indexes since that will add 10 more classes to a list that is already ridiculously long.
    Jim Z
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    06 Mar 2014 12:42 PM

    Posted By Catch-22 on 06 Mar 2014 12:37 PM
    Shari/Nathan need to answer the L question. My thought was one L index for all classes since we never have more than a few L entrants anyway, but it is their choice. My guess would be that if the ladies ask for an L index they'll get it.

    I sincerely hope we don't run parallel L classes to the above indexes since that will add 10 more classes to a list that is already ridiculously long.

     

    Can you answer the first question?



    Catch-22
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    06 Mar 2014 01:25 PM
    If I could I would have.
    btschafer
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    09 Mar 2014 09:55 PM
    Jim,
    I'm on the road and on my phone so a quick reply. I'll check the computer with the new classes. I don't want to confuse T&S people so let me see what we can do to make car numbering and T&S less confusing for everyone.
    Bryan
    mister2dood
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    10 Mar 2014 12:23 PM
    I like it!
    Catch-22
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    11 Mar 2014 10:08 AM
    Pro Class for PE1 = Oh My.
    And it'll likely get better (or worse, depending on your perspective).
    lightisfast
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    11 Mar 2014 07:20 PM
    I like the decision, it should help keep some good competition going. I expect Pro will get pretty busy for those lucky times we run a points events on concrete. I had been waiting, didn't realize registration was open, so I am on there now.
    btschafer
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    14 Mar 2014 04:09 PM
    Posted By Jim Z on 06 Mar 2014 11:53 AM

    What lettering will be required on the car for the Open indexed classes? For instance, if our regular class is CSR, do we run these letters, or do we put SRO on the car?

    Are there going to be parallel Ladies index classes, or will there be a single overall Ladies Index class like OVR will be doing?

    It looks like both MAE and AxWare will handle unique numbers for indexed classes.  There is a bug (or two) in the current version of AxWare that makes the "new registration" dialog not handle unique numbers as well as it should.  This was reported and the next release of AxWare should contain the fix.  In the meantime we will just need to be careful at registration to make sure that everyone is entered correctly.  Of course, this is a non-issue if people preregister.  

    So, feel free to identify your car using only the index class...

    Bryan


    obielando
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    16 Jul 2014 08:16 AM

    Don't mean to bring up a dead topic, but after competing in a couple of events now, I am wondering why we still have a lot of entries in non-indexed classes?

    PE #5 had 9 entrants in Street classes that as far as I can tell, should have been in Street Open, right?  Maybe I'm just confused.  Are we just not enforcing the move to the indexed class?

    I ask because after the next event, I can't compete in Novice any more (or if you ask Popp, it's after this event ), and I'm not sure if I should be registering in ES specifically, or just Street Open?

    Catch-22
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    16 Jul 2014 02:10 PM
    There is no "enforcing" of moving anywhere. Its an option we hope everyone chooses.

    We will hopefully make the decision to kill off either the individual or indexed classes after this season of offering both (which is too many). What stays and what goes will largely be a result of how people have "voted" with their entries. So if you like larger classes and don't mind running on index... Put yourself in Street Open. If you want to collect a bunch of trophies for running against nobody half the time... ES.
    Your choice.

    lycanthrope
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    16 Jul 2014 09:15 PM
    we don't enforce moving people into index classes because some people just don't like running in them. as shari and i see it our job is to provide a good time for as many people as possible. for some people that is racing against a larger group and challenging themselves in an attempt to improve their skills, for others its just a chance to get away from everything for a day and have a good time regardless of the competition. for a decent number of people this may also include gaining a sense of accomplishment(even if it is what some of us would consider a false one). for those people running in a small class by themselves gives them that and I'm not very inclined to take that away form them. keeping the extra classes gives us extra entries and that helps pay the bills and if the concern is that too many people will run away with trophies at the end of the event well it just simply isn't true. most of the people that run in classes with only one or 2 entries don't stick around to collect their winnings and the few that do i don't view as a big enough loss over the amount of extra revenue generated by the extra entries that just want a class to win in. the only downside i see to the extra classes is that it can, clearly, make things a little confusing for people who are new to this.

    tl dr; the extra classes don't prevent anyone from running in index classes and they fill a need/want for some people. if you want more people in the index classes appeal to them and see if you can convince them to run in them. besides all the extra classes gives scott something to complain about
    Catch-22
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    17 Jul 2014 07:55 AM
    Having extra classes does NOT result in more entries. This is a false notion that has been debunked over and over again. People do this sport to drive cars, not to collect easy trophies.

    In other words, having a class all to yourself so you can get a free trophy may be something some people prefer over a big indexed class, but it isn't the prime motivation for anyone to show up and pay an entry fee. If you think of it in those terms it is sort of ridiculous.

    Your job isn't to try to make everyone happy (which is completely impossible anyway), it is to organize a fun, safe and efficient solo program. When you have 60 classes, you have overcomplicated things without any real payback.
    If you want to ditch the index classes for 2015, by all means go right ahead, but please don't offer both.
    sjfehr
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    17 Jul 2014 08:08 AM
    Trophy-hunting aside, how have the index classes been working out in practice?
    lycanthrope
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    17 Jul 2014 03:25 PM
    Pretty well I'd have to say. Its made for some good competition and they are catching on pretty quickly.
    Catch-22
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    17 Jul 2014 04:20 PM
    Given that it is completely new and has only been in place for 5 events I think it is working well, and should get more popular as more people see it in action and begin to understand what is going on.
    mdavis
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    17 Jul 2014 10:31 PM
    Posted By Catch-22 on 17 Jul 2014 07:55 AM

    If you want to ditch the index classes for 2015, by all means go right ahead, but please don't offer both.

    Having worked the timing computer at a couple of events this year, I would like to second this opinion. With only indexed classes, it is very easy to show the couple of index classes running in each heat, and when a number comes from start, it's very easy to pick which car is actually running. There were several times this past event where I thought I heard "11 SS" when the car was in fact "111 FS". Over the gargled radio, they sound similar. I don't think I've screwed anything up to this point (I keep getting assigned to T&S when I request it, so I think that means I'm not sucking too bad, right?), but I think it would definitely make things easier in the trailer with only indexed classes. Will you get everyone to run index classes? Maybe, maybe not. That's a discussion for another day/time/place. But thinking purely in the sense of "what would have made my life easier last event when I was working", only index classes definitely would have helped.

    Catch-22
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    18 Jul 2014 10:16 AM
    Everyone would run indexed classes if that is all you offered. I seriously doubt anyone would walk away from events entirely because they couldn't be a whale in their little bathtub and get free beer glasses, but if anyone really did have that attitude I'm not sure we want them around anyway.

    As I've said before, we aren't a car show club. We're a competition club, and competition is fun, builds friendships, and makes you better at the game.

    I'd really love to see us trim down to 10 total classes next year. Its very possible, and lots of regions are watching us to see what we do and how it works out.
    Registration at the first few events would be complicated, but after everyone settled in the competition would get better and event management would get easier.
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