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Last Post 20 Jun 2014 07:14 AM by  RustoWRX
Street change proposal from May Fastrack - Factory repair methods
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cashmo
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15 Jun 2014 11:50 PM

    We haven't had one letter sent in to sebscca.org regarding the Street change proposal regarding Factory repair methods...

    From the May Fastrack...

    Street
    Repair Methods
    Change the third paragraph of 13.1 to read:

    “All repairs must comply with factory-authorized methods and procedures, or industry standard methods, as follows: If the OEM does not provide an appropriate method of repair, industry standard methods and procedures may be used. Such repairs may not result in a part or combination of parts that provides a competitive advantage (e.g. significant change to weight, suspension control, power, etc.) as compared to the standard part(s). Competitors are strongly cautioned to use this allowance to make common-sense repairs only.”

    The idea is to allow someone to make a cheap/easy fix (bolt or zip tie a plastic under tray back on) but not to create any competitive advantage.  Does this wording do that?

    Thanks,
    Jeff

     

     

    fenter
    Basic Member
    Basic Member
    Posts:198


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    16 Jun 2014 07:20 AM

    Did the team consider specifying 'exterior plastic under body panels' or do you intend to make the rule more broad than that?  I agree the rule would be appropriate considering how our Mazda 3 under tray self destructed.  It has been zip tied together ever since

    Take care,

    Chris

     

     

    hklvette
    Basic Member
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    Posts:184


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    16 Jun 2014 12:26 PM
    I'm thinking that such a rule has become "common-law". If I use a zip-tie in place of a christmas tree or pop fastener, any protest against it would likely be considered petty at best. Still good to put it in writing, in any case.
    marka
    Veteran Member
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    Posts:2258


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    17 Jun 2014 11:13 AM
    Howdy,

    Another thing the wording is intended to include is to allow someone to weld a bracket back onto the chassis that rips off (aka BMW e36 rear mounts, though those aren't the only things that do this).

    Mark
    sjfehr
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    17 Jun 2014 05:07 PM
    Could this potentially be construed to allow repairs to correct reliability defects of particular cars that manufacturers do not adequately address using "industry standard" methods? So long as those methods don't create any performance advantages?

    For example- would this permit replacement of a Porsche M96 IMS bearing with an aftermarket replacement? Would be really hard to imagine any competitive advantage there. But what about doing something like putting an underdrive pulley on an f-body camaro power steering pump? Or whatever it is that Elise drivers to do prevent oil starvation in corners?
    ComBIRDable
    Basic Member
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    Posts:137


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    18 Jun 2014 08:47 AM

    If I'm protested, how do I document "industry standard methods and procedures" of repair?  How do we decide what is "industry standard" and what isn't?  Please understand, I like this rule a lot.  I like the last sentence as it provides guidance on how to use this allowance.  I'm just trying to understand what would happen if a repair were challenged.

     

    Thanks,

    Scott

    marka
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    Posts:2258


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    19 Jun 2014 10:43 AM
    Howdy,
    Posted By sjfehr on 17 Jun 2014 05:07 PM
    Could this potentially be construed to allow repairs to correct reliability defects of particular cars that manufacturers do not adequately address using "industry standard" methods? So long as those methods don't create any performance advantages?

    For example- would this permit replacement of a Porsche M96 IMS bearing with an aftermarket replacement? Would be really hard to imagine any competitive advantage there. But what about doing something like putting an underdrive pulley on an f-body camaro power steering pump? Or whatever it is that Elise drivers to do prevent oil starvation in corners?

    Unlikely in both cases.  Certainly an underdrive pulley is a clear violation of the competitive advantage section.  The IMS bearing has a factory authorized method of repair which replaces the bearing.  I think its pretty hard to justify using an alternate bearing in that case, but one of the goals of the wording is to put that type of judgement in the hands of a protest committee who can look at the specific situation and not the general case.

     

    Mark

    marka
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    19 Jun 2014 10:49 AM
    Howdy,
    Posted By ComBIRDable on 18 Jun 2014 08:47 AM

    If I'm protested, how do I document "industry standard methods and procedures" of repair?  How do we decide what is "industry standard" and what isn't?  Please understand, I like this rule a lot.  I like the last sentence as it provides guidance on how to use this allowance.  I'm just trying to understand what would happen if a repair were challenged.

     

    Thanks,

    Scott


    You convince the Protest Committee that both the factory method for repairing the damage is unworkable / non-existent / not appropriate and that your chosen method of repair is what a "normal person" would do when faced with the same situation.  The level of documentation necessary here will depend on the situation.

    But as a general guideline... You want every PC member to look at the repair you made, look at what the factory (via the service manual) said was the way to repair it (if such a repair method is outlined at all), and then all nod their heads that that's what a normal person would do _AND_ that the repair provides no performance advantage.  MHO, but if you feel the need to document the repair method you chose, you're probably skating on thin ice already.

    Another way to think of this rule is that its an attempt to codify "Don't be a dickhead" into the rules.  If somebody welded in repair pieces because their E36 rear subframe tore, don't protest the guy because BMW didn't explicitly put that in the service manual. Along with that, don't try and relocate a suspension mount under the guise of a "common sense repair".

     

    Mark

    RustoWRX
    New Member
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    Posts:28


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    20 Jun 2014 07:14 AM
    I think the wording works. There has to be some subjectivity to catch the needed intent (which it has), while clearly indicating that this flexibility can't be used to create an advantage.
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