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Last Post 20 Aug 2014 10:25 AM by  12secondscooby
Track Modifications in Street Class
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ltborg
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Posts:87


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18 Aug 2014 02:30 PM
    Would a disabled brake duct count as comfort and convenience modification in Street classes?
    Yes (6)
     55%
    No (5)
     45%

    I'm looking at doing a few modifications to my B-Street car to make it more reliable at track days. One of the things I would like to do is add the C5 Z06 rear brake ducts, which require a hole/vent in the rocker panel of the car (see these picture instructions for details).

     

    Since the ducts themselves bolt in with a single bolt, what I am wondering is if I removed these for autocross competition and blocked the vent in the rocker and inner fender, would this be considered a comfort and convenience mod? With the vent opening blocked, these would functionally just be added weight and added drag, which shouldn't be considered a performance advantage. That said, I want to keep the car legal for B-Street and if the consensus is that it would be found illegal in a protest, I'll have to find another way to keep the brakes cool at the track on hot days. Any thoughts and votes would be appreciated. Thanks!

     

    marka
    Veteran Member
    Veteran Member
    Posts:2258


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    18 Aug 2014 03:06 PM
    Howdy,

    I wouldn't protest it and I think someone would need to be a pretty big tool to do so. But I'd certainly want to be damn sure I could prove that the weight was more vs. less and you're high enough profile and the modification is super easy to see that I'd expect to have conversations with folks.

    To me, this covers what you want to do, assuming all you have when competing is a vent with a block off plate behind it:

    "Accessories, gauges, indicators, lights and other appearance, comfort and convenience modifications which have no effect on performance and/or handling and do not materially reduce the weight of the car are permitted."

    With a blockoff plate, to me the vent is the same thing as a stick on porthole or whatever else. I think that's why that rule exists.

    Mark

    (not official)
    twistedwankel
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:57


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    18 Aug 2014 03:35 PM
    Since your mod is "irreversible" after cutting the panel. I wouldn't do it. My 2 cents. There are just enough "tools" in the org to nail you with this when you win the jacket or a trophy for that matter.

    APPENDIX F - CLARIFICATIONS
    Whenever a competitor remains unsure of the legality of certain configurations
    after studying the rules carefully, he/she is encouraged to
    obtain a clarification by writing the Solo® Events Board. The SEB will
    attempt to respond as soon as possible. If events require a deadline for
    a response, the SEB will attempt to accommodate that deadline.
    The requesting member must be aware that clarifications are general
    statements of principle offered in good faith and are designed to clarify
    intent, but they do not afford specific cars permanent protection from
    subsequent protest and disqualification. Nor are the responses from the
    SEB inviolable instructions to protest committees. This is because in
    most cases the SEB is responding to a specific or limited question and
    operating only on information supplied by the interested party which
    cannot be guaranteed by the SEB to be complete. Photos and descriptions
    provided for the SEB’s consideration may not be clear or may not
    portray the information in the full light of issues of information that may
    subsequently be considered by a protesting party. Due to the volume of
    mail, the SEB cannot research each item for the competitor. Even if it
    could, it could not assure that new information would not be forthcoming
    at a future date.
    The rules are constantly evolving as the pressures of competition induce
    competitors to exploit each and every facet of the rules. Such competitors
    may discover and act in good faith on an entirely new interpretation
    that the SEB feels compelled to pronounce compliant according to the
    letter of the rules but in fact circumvents the rulesmakers’ original intent
    and may result in a long-term disservice to the majority of competitors
    if allowed to stand. In these cases the SEB will revise the rule but only
    after going through the required rules change process. Therefore it is
    always in the competitor’s best interest to obtain a clarification before
    investing large amounts of time, money and effort in an interpretation
    which may be shortlived. Such rulings will be accompanied by the appropriate
    caveats that the SEB is considering such a change.
    In the extreme, some competitors feel the need to base their efforts
    largely on clever re-interpretations of rules rather than driving prowess
    or engineering skill based on common principles offered in good faith
    by the SEB and accepted by the majority at face value. Such efforts are
    constantly challenging the SEB and those who pursue this route must
    accept the risks they take when they exploit loopholes that clearly are
    not in the best interest of the membership at large. In such cases, the
    interests of the majority must ultimately hold sway over “fairness” to the
    individual.
    ltborg
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:87


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    18 Aug 2014 04:23 PM
    Posted By marka on 18 Aug 2014 03:06 PM
    Howdy,

    I wouldn't protest it and I think someone would need to be a pretty big tool to do so. But I'd certainly want to be damn sure I could prove that the weight was more vs. less and you're high enough profile and the modification is super easy to see that I'd expect to have conversations with folks.

    To me, this covers what you want to do, assuming all you have when competing is a vent with a block off plate behind it:

    "Accessories, gauges, indicators, lights and other appearance, comfort and convenience modifications which have no effect on performance and/or handling and do not materially reduce the weight of the car are permitted."

    With a blockoff plate, to me the vent is the same thing as a stick on porthole or whatever else. I think that's why that rule exists.

    Mark

    (not official)

    That was my thought too and why I was hoping to be able to do this. That said, I completely understand that having a functioning brake duct is illegal (if not from the factory). 

     

    While I don't have this on my car, I know for Pro's you can have a switch to activate the radiator cooling fans, but at Tours it's not allowed. I heard that as long as the switch was somewhere you couldn't get to during a run, it was fine to leave it on the car for Tours. I was hoping this would fall into the same category. Hopefully we can get a clear consensus here one way or the other.


    RustoWRX
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:28


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    18 Aug 2014 07:07 PM
    Posted By ltborg on 18 Aug 2014 02:30 PM

    I'm looking at doing a few modifications to my B-Street car to make it more reliable at track days. One of the things I would like to do is add the C5 Z06 rear brake ducts, which require a hole/vent in the rocker panel of the car (see these picture instructions for details).

     

    Since the ducts themselves bolt in with a single bolt, what I am wondering is if I removed these for autocross competition and blocked the vent in the rocker and inner fender, would this be considered a comfort and convenience mod? With the vent opening blocked, these would functionally just be added weight and added drag, which shouldn't be considered a performance advantage. That said, I want to keep the car legal for B-Street and if the consensus is that it would be found illegal in a protest, I'll have to find another way to keep the brakes cool at the track on hot days. Any thoughts and votes would be appreciated. Thanks!

     

    Here's my $0.02...the way it's written, I'd say it's "technically"not allowed in the Street class.  I would agree with the previous poster that 99% of competitors wouldn't care one bit (including me)...but are you willing to risk having that 1% guy in your class who would make a big deal out of it to get their trophy...

    Now....if you happened to have a section of the body that was damaged/missing, for which you installed makeshift plugs and none of the ducting was present, then I would argue this as part of that rule that allows zip ties and other makeshift "fix-its". The usual caveats apply...plugs can't weigh less or have aero advantage...ya da ya da ya da...

    I'm looking forward to seeing you run in Lincoln, as I'm looking at joining BS if the C5 stays put.  Good luck!

     


    ltborg
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:87


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    20 Aug 2014 08:41 AM

    I agree that from a purely technical perspective it's definitely in a grey area, hence the question. Basically the same point twistedwankel said, someone might have grounds to protest it. In an effort to make a more usable car (the whole point of the Street classes), I was hoping there might be some precedent of little modifications like this. Even if it was function, it would be only a detriment on the autocross course. I do everything I can to get heat into the brakes when autocrossing, not out of them like you need at the track.


    I don't plan on doing this before Nationals so I guess I will survey the BS (and maybe AS and STU) paddock and see what people think. 

    12secondscooby
    New Member
    New Member
    Posts:4


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    20 Aug 2014 10:25 AM

    I think you could argue your way out of a protest, if anyone was going to be that much of a pain. It isn't offering a performance advantage at the time, and the duct scoop should definitely weigh more than the section you are cutting out. I would take pictures of each item on a kitchen scale or something. It is a "convenience" modification, in that it conveniently allows for the installation of a brake duct.

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