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Last Post 14 Oct 2014 04:42 PM by  Alan Dahl
DS, GS, HS Class Mixup
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SoloRT
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19 Sep 2014 10:20 PM
Seems like the 1st gen Neons would be a good fit in HS. The 2nd gen ACRs (01-02) are there and are similar in performance to the 1st gen cars. The 1st gen Neons were always slower than the Celica GT by a decent amount. And the 14x6 stock wheels do not give then a very wide wheel and limited tire upgrade to 15s. Would be fun to see a few back like the Super Solo days...
coneassasin
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30 Sep 2014 01:29 AM
As of January 2015...

Ford

Contour (V6)
Fiesta ST (2014)
Five Hundred
Fusion (6-cyl)
Mustang (4-cyl Turbo & V6)(1979-93)
Probe (all) (1993-97)
Probe (4-cyl Turbo & V6) (1989-92)
Tempo (V6)
Thunderbird Turbo


I wonder if this turns H street into Fiesta ST spec class.
Adam303
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30 Sep 2014 10:20 AM

It's quite possible, but that would be because it's a new car with a factory warranty, not because it's necessarily the best (fastest) of the new crop of HS cars around an autocross course. Also you can never underestimate the lemming effect, it is very strong in autocross and there are a lot more followers than trailblazers/innovators. 

serendib
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30 Sep 2014 06:41 PM

The latest Fastrack moves the 2008-14 Audi TTQ from DS to BS in 2015.

Unrelated to above:  If the FoST is to remain in GS,  The MS3 and Cobalt SSTC should be moved to GS in 2015.

Cligedy
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30 Sep 2014 07:11 PM
Posted By serendib on 30 Sep 2014 06:41 PM

The latest Fastrack moves the 2008-14 Audi TTQ from DS to BS in 2015.
Unrelated to above:  If the FoST is to remain in GS,  The MS3 and Cobalt SSTC should be moved to GS in 2015.


Great news, the MS3 is being moved to GS.
John9546
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30 Sep 2014 07:16 PM

Yes the latest Fastrack moves the 2008-14 Audi TTQ from DS to BS in 2015.  Of interest looking at Nationals results between 2009 - 2014 and comparing National Champion times, BS is 6.061 - 2.338 seconds faster than DS.  Moving the Audi TT Quattros to BS and the with the time handicap removes the car from any SCCA Solo Street competition.  If SCCA officials wanted this car eliminated from Solo competition why not just disallow it straight up rather then hiding their conspiracy behind a classification change?  Letters are being prepared for the SEB and the advisors and copies furnished to SCCA leadership on this.

 

Kanaric
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30 Sep 2014 08:41 PM

Do any of the new more "budget" cars in HS seem to be competitive at all? GSR? Milano? 318is? FWD DSM? 405 MI16?

1G FWD DSM seems similar, on paper, to the Fiesta to me. I never owned so idk how they drive though.

ron
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01 Oct 2014 11:21 AM

The 318 is and ti definitely have a shot as does the crx si, both generations. Actually lots of possibilities if you want an older car.

Ron Williams

kyoo
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01 Oct 2014 02:41 PM
I guess this halfway ended up happening, though it's still far from what I had in mind.

They basically classed the TT out of relevancy, leaving DS a WRX only class, and GS a FoST only class (though less so). This potentially makes a GS-HS merge half a year away, pending how things shake out with the FiST in HS.

Still think the WRXes can be moved into GS, between WRX, FoST, MS3, new GTI w/ LSD (not sure why they left the MCS in DS), it's anyone's game - put the base TT back in DS, throw in the higher performance rally sedans & some of the other outclassed BS cars, and have a healthy class there.
John9546
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01 Oct 2014 03:21 PM

Of any interest after competing with my Audi TTQ at Nationals and speaking with quite a few WRX drivers we all felt the street tire change had equalized the class.  Any slight grip advantage of the Audi TTQ wheel width and tires from Hoosiers to Hankooks dropped.  With the WRX higher horsepower and torque they can take advantage of any open squirts on the open Lincoln Airpark Nationals courses.  Look at the Nationals DS results and they tell the story.  The SEB change moving the Audi TTQ's to BS is a total mystery????

gareno
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01 Oct 2014 07:54 PM

None of the moves to HS are of a big concern to me. I think most of them are warranted. The CRX SI does have the potential to upset HS. But I welcome the challenge.  

I think the SAC made 3 errors in their classing. Here is what I would have done if I were in charge.

Fiesta ST-Leave in GS. (and I'm not saying that because I'm in HS)(I haven't seen one prepped or driven to the level to scare me yet). But I feel without the Focus in GS, the Fiesta will be right at home with the others in class.

Audi TT- Leave in DS.

Focus ST-Move to DS.

Without the TT and Focus in DS, I think the Mini Cooper S will dominate. 

 

cashmo
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01 Oct 2014 08:51 PM
Other than the 2 potential moves out for member comment, I wouldn't expect many changes in the next few years.  What we have is what we have, other than new cars being classed, (Golf, GTI, MX5, M3/M4, etc.).   The rules season dictates a certain amount of class stability.  If you want more input into how cars are classed the Street Class Advisory committee will have at least one open in a few months.  Apply at sebscca.com.

Because I keep getting asked, here's a good intro to the SCCA Solo rules process...

 Jeff

John9546
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01 Oct 2014 09:21 PM

Jeff, think about this.  The SEB can move your car from DM to BM for no reason but class stability?  That is what they did with the 2008-2014 Audi TT Quattro from DS to BS (a 6 - 2.5 second handicap over 6 years of Nationals record 09-14).  You would have a 5 second handicap based on 2014 Nationals results if your car was placed in BM.  If it can happen to me it can happen to you.  Getting on the SEB to make changes is not how to fix this problem for those of us impacted now.  When you have a smoking gun of creating a large handicap for a car as a result of a classification change it shines on the whole board and process and only those in place can fix the result if they chose so.  Otherwise the changes stand and you and everyone else in the club can only hope it does not happen to them; but is can!

gareno
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01 Oct 2014 10:06 PM
Posted By cashmo on 01 Oct 2014 08:51 PM
Other than the 2 potential moves out for member comment, I wouldn't expect many changes in the next few years.  What we have is what we have, other than new cars being classed, (Golf, GTI, MX5, M3/M4, etc.).   The rules season dictates a certain amount of class stability.  If you want more input into how cars are classed the Street Class Advisory committee will have at least one open in a few months.  Apply at sebscca.com.

Because I keep getting asked, here's a good intro to the SCCA Solo rules process...

 

 Jeff

 So the two proposals that you speak of that are out for public comment are just the Porsche and Corvette? (read: rich people problems).

Is there any opportunity to write a letter about any of the other moves that take effect 1/1/2015?  Or is that a done deal?  Yes, I read that link you provided about how rules are made. But that was a lot to comprehend...I haven't read that much since I graduated 20some years ago. So I'm not quite as sharp as I used to me. So help a guy out.

 

John9546
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01 Oct 2014 10:10 PM

gareno, you can go to http://crbscca.com/ and there you can create your letter or comments to the SEB.  It is never too late to write. 

gareno
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01 Oct 2014 10:20 PM
Posted By John LaRandeau on 01 Oct 2014 10:10 PM

gareno, you can go to http://crbscca.com/ and there you can create your letter or comments to the SEB.  It is never too late to write. 

Thanks John. BTW, Congrats on getting the main photo credit on latest SoloMatters newsletter. Sorry it came with such sucky news...


cashmo
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01 Oct 2014 10:22 PM
No, they can't, not without that move going out for member comment for the next calendar year, (please see the rules process link above). The Street class proposal was an unusual class reshuffle with the caveat that they'd all fall under the 12 month new classing rule. The proposal went out for member comment and got overwhelming member support. I'm sorry your car got moved up but it passed the review of two boards of your peers. We all had our own personal vision of what changes should be made. No one on the SAC/SEB got everything they wanted either. But now that the 12 month window has passed I believe most members would prefer to keep changes to a minimum for the next few years.
cashmo
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01 Oct 2014 10:29 PM

Yes, the GT3 and base C5 Vettte proposals are out for comment and, if passed, would go into effect for 2016. Any other changes for 2016 would have to go out for member comment by July'ish next year. You're free to write in at sebscca.com any time but I would be very surprised to see any more changes for 2015.

Perhaps Dave explains things better here...

serendib
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01 Oct 2014 10:37 PM
Interesting position since we have not as yet heard any explanation as to how common sense and empirical data were overcome by reclassing the TTQ to BS. How is that its main competitor the Wrx didn't get moved to BS?
John9546
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01 Oct 2014 11:03 PM
The latest SoloMatters and the moving of the 2008-2014 Audi TT from DS to BS  -    http://www.solomatters.com/2015_str...ears-oh_my  -  

   states the reason for reclassification of some cars - "Cars that are difficult to acquire, difficult to own, etc. are generally going to be classed less favorably than cars that are easy to own. Cars that are older and have a limited parts supply are generally going to be classed less favorably than cars that are still supported by their manufacturer. Cars that are popular with our participants are generally going to be classed more favorably than cars that are not. Each class tends to develop its own "personality" and we are sensitive to that."

The 2008-2014 Audi TT Quattros are still available.  It is available in 2015.  Parts are all over the place.  They are not limited.  If you want a 2008 - 2009 Audi TT 3.2 Quattro there are several on ebay right now.  Also they are in dealerships all over the country.  You could fill up a D Street class if folks wanted to by them.   You can get a very nice 2008 Audi TT 3.2 Quattro for $21,000 to $30,000 and these are very well cared for cars.  A new Sabaru WRX is priced a little more.   Ok out of 24 cars in DS at the 2014 Nationals there were 4 Audi TT Quattros and 6 drivers.  That is 25% of the Class.  I have autocrossed the car since 2011; done Championship Tours, Pro Solos, 3 Nationals, Solo Time Trials and the Club Race Time Trials and No and I mean NO problems with the car; oh those darn brake shoes and pads need changing!   Something was missed and a mistake made in this reclassification and I only hope the SEB and the SAC can fix it.

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