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Last Post 16 Sep 2014 10:43 PM by  eaf363
PE7 Course feedback
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mdavis
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08 Sep 2014 10:58 PM

    PE7 was the first course I designed, and it would be nice to have some feedback from people that ran it. I heard everything from "David Santel Approved" to "Monza Inspired" to "Too short" on site, but now that people have had time to think about things, watch some video, etc. what are people's thoughts? Everyone I spoke to on site seemed to like it, but if anyone has anything that I can use going forward, that would be most appreciated. 

    My goal was to create something that was fun, fast, and flowing, which I think I accomplished. Unfortunately, it came at the expense of course length. Whenever I tried to add length, the course got really element heavy and busy, which I didn't like, so I got rid of stuff.

     

    Thanks,

    -Matt

    trippinbillies40
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    09 Sep 2014 11:06 AM

    Said it before and I'll say it again: I would rather have a 37 second course that is fun, challenging, and flowing over a 55 second course that sucks because it's a wadded up mess all day long. The lot invites courses to be lots of 180 degree S bends and corners, and those get boring when you have a course full of them. So darty action is always nice, and I think you accomplished that well.

     

    If you want some crticism, just remember the "slalom" issue at the beginning.  Also, your course was VERY fast for cars under 300hp.  After the first couple 180's heading back to the corner, I was on the rev limiter by the middle of the walloms.  Should have shifted to third like Mr. Sexton was doing in his car. I can only imagine how much longer I would have been on the limiter in an STX Twin.  Also, was shifting to third before the finish.  That all having been said, I never ask to design courses because I have no idea what I would have changed. We already had a boo boo on a Corvette because the walloms clearly weren't flat for him :/ 

     

    So, not a perfect course, but really, really good. Especially for your first try. It wasn't my favorite that we've done there, but top three easily Gordon's course with the walloms from hell at the end a couple years ago (when we set up in the rain) was by far my favorite haha.

    JWhitling
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    09 Sep 2014 11:34 AM

    I for one, really liked the fast and very safe finish. It would seem that the lot could have been used a little more in the back down the street side but I did have a good time. The slippery pavement made it a real challenge on the first few runs of the first heat but that is nothing against the course design. I liked the diagonal "straight" section too but ended up a little to close the edge on the corner following.

     One thing I would say about the start location .. we really need to make sure that we don't line up the start over a sealed pavement line. In the previous event we ended up pulling out a tar strip from the high horsepower cars starting over the tar strip.

    scionsouth
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    09 Sep 2014 12:42 PM
    Lots of fun! Was worth my drive from Lexington. I say excellent job for your 1st time.
    FinnStig
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    09 Sep 2014 03:27 PM
    I really liked it, you did a good job. I'm just happy it wasn't a sea of cones...

    Here's my fastest run on Sunday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT2...2LtYMjSSng

    Chase
    tacti
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    09 Sep 2014 03:32 PM
    Here's my fastest but slow run
    finally broke 42sec on my last run.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlRxCwMV6zk&index=1&list=PL7GBXsbVq35oy2cQhiUgZoCfx8KGTgzuU
    scionsouth
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    Posts:39


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    09 Sep 2014 04:24 PM

    Here is my  last run/re-run.  It was a 35.530. 

    http://youtu.be/kaRCaBS2Eeg

     

    Catch-22
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    09 Sep 2014 08:21 PM
    What Dave said.

    There is some sort of wrongheaded infatuation with course length and using every square foot of a lot in our sport. When you do that, the courses generally end up being tedious, tire chewing collections of 180s and straights.

    Grissom AFB has been around for a long time and is a site in our division that most people that have competed for a while have seen. The absolute hands down best course I have ever run there was 40 seconds. 40 seconds of a balanced combination of technical features and hanging on for life with a mashed throttle.
    The absolute most horribly terrible course  that I have ever seen there was 65 seconds. 65 seconds of pure, unadulterated [I]"Why the hell did I get out of bed early for THIS?"[/I] crap.   That course was so bad and the visuals so poorly thought out that national champs were getting lost and DNFing and some people actually just went home without bothering to run.  It has a special place in the bad course hall of shame and is pretty infamous as a prime example of how not to do it.
      
    The moral is just because you CAN lay out a 65 second course doesn't mean you SHOULD. And we could easily lay out a 65 second course on that lot, and it would suck. 40 to 50 seems to be the butter zone.

    Based on the videos, feedback and the layout Matt sent me last week that was an excellent effort. Especially given the challenges of that lot and that it was his first. He did not fall into any of the typical "first course" traps. Great Job!!!

    bruceleejkd
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    09 Sep 2014 10:58 PM
    I really enjoyed the course. I thought it was fast, easy to read and flowed well. Great job for your first course design!

    Here is my best run of a 36.707:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFO...ata_player
    mister2dood
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    10 Sep 2014 12:09 PM
    I really enjoyed the course and the event.

    The course had good thru-put. There are some course designs that don't lend themselves well to sending out a car every 15 seconds due to proximity of features, confusing design/DNFs, lengthy cone replacement, or other interruptions that reduce thru-put, but when it's good, everybody gets more runs! More runs is always better, and thru-put determines that, rather than length.

    Agree with the comment above about keeping the start, or at least the ideal starting position within the start zone, away from the tar crack sealer. We don't want to do visible damage to the lot, and it hurts your launch if you accidentally line up on it.

    One of the best feelings you can get after your first run is when you start thinking about a particular feature or corner combination and realize that maybe you don't have to lift, or maybe you don't have to brake, if you just line yourself up properly/stay smooth/turn in at the right place. The course Sunday definitely had that, and I was always looking forward to my next run and whether I could get on the power sooner/more smoothly and eek out some more "big cam" time on the wallom straight.

    I think it'd be a shame to go much shorter than 30 or 35 seconds on such a big lot, but I don't think maximizing length should be a goal.
    trippinbillies40
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    12 Sep 2014 08:52 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty_...vWmhPHZMMw

    Can we just mirror that course and run it? My favorite course at Wilmington by far. (props to Gordon)
    mdavis
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    13 Sep 2014 11:20 PM
    Posted By trippinbillies40 on 12 Sep 2014 08:52 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty_0u9Rh9Hk&list=UUeQ5LibXiJRqHvWmhPHZMMw

    Can we just mirror that course and run it? My favorite course at Wilmington by far. (props to Gordon)

    Not likely. The biggest reason against it is that the lot is not symmetric about the grid of poles/buildings. That was something I found out trying to lay out a left-hand biased course on the lot for PE7.

    That said, I've watched video of that course multiple times (watching your helmet video nearly makes me sick from all of the various things rotating about strange axes with respect to other visuals), and have started working on stuff that kinda implements some of those elements. I doubt it'll be as fun, but who knows. It won't see the light of day for at least 1 event, since I'm not responsible for PE8 design. 

    Thanks everyone for the feedback. I've got 1 more design this season (more than likely), so we'll get to see if the PE7 course was beginners luck or not.
    eaf363
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    16 Sep 2014 10:43 PM
     Posted By trippinbillies40 on 12 Sep 2014 08:52 PM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty_0u9Rh9Hk&list=UUeQ5LibXiJRqHvWmhPHZMMw

    Can we just mirror that course and run it? My favorite course at Wilmington by far. (props to Gordon)

    I think, for better or worse, this was the theoretical best usage of the lot.  Definite props to Gordon.  I'm going to attempt something with similar flavor this weekend without directly copy-catting.  Those walls at the end were perfectly "painful, but not really, oh wait yes this is tricky."



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