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Last Post 16 Oct 2014 07:44 PM by  mdavis
What Did We Learn Sunday?
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Catch-22
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06 Oct 2014 09:08 AM

    - The new sealer on that lot means if it is cold and not sunny, there is no grip atall.  Our first 3 runs in first heat felt exactly like driving in a light rain on slicks, then the sun came out for about 20 minutes and we dropped big chunks of time, then it went back behind the clouds and things got slick again.  If it's cold, cloudy AND raining, we might want to consider cancelling the event because I'm guessing it will be alot like driving on ice.  We were getting wheelspin off corners in 2nd gear in a 105hp FWD car with huge tires and an aggressive diff, and that has only ever happened before in full wet conditions.

    - Lots of cone carnage, but IMO it was not related to Gordon's course design (which was great!) as much as the lack of grip for most of the day.  Had we known it would be THAT slippery we could have made some adjustments to make it a little easier and less coney, but we had no idea it was going to be that bad. 

    - You can fit a cone fully upright in the engine bay of an XR4ti.

    - Directional tires are... Directional.

    - Shari McCoy ain't scared.

    - If the weather forecast doesn't call for wind, it probably excludes Wilmington.

    - The old adage is that the best drivers rise to the top when the conditions are not optimal, and my wife gave everyone hell yesterday, so... yeah.

     

    ghostlyneon
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    06 Oct 2014 10:42 AM

    I have maxed out my talent for the year.

    The course was great. lots of thinking and some very different lines possible.

    FYI TOG has cartoon drawing skills.

    trippinbillies40
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    06 Oct 2014 03:25 PM
    Posted By Catch-22 on 06 Oct 2014 09:08 AM 

    - Directional tires are... Directional.

     

    Ha. Just be glad I had them on backwards or I would have smoked you...  lol  (see, I can make post event excuses too!!! )

    BlackVR6
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    07 Oct 2014 03:27 PM
    Great course for sure - couldn't keep my VW pointed forward to save my life! My first time at the Wilmington venue and have to say it's really nice! All we need is a bit of warmer weather...
    mdavis
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    07 Oct 2014 10:02 PM
    Things I learned on Sunday:
    1. Having 50+ classes, where the index and base class are used makes things incredibly difficult in the timing trailer, especially if the trailer can't see the line of cars before the starting line. This is especially true if people are racking up penalties nearly every run, and there is a hard acceleration point directly in front of the trailer.
    2. That lot is sliiiiiick in the cold.
    3. Gordon designs/recycles some really fun courses (this was the first time I'd driven it), which are considerably easier to set up if you have 5 people in the morning. This allows time to line the course, which means we need less pointer cones/walls/etc. although the number of DNF's may suggest otherwise.
    Catch-22
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    08 Oct 2014 08:32 AM
    Most of the DNFs I saw outside of Novice class were grip related. People kept getting in too hot and bailing out.

    As a course designer note, we do need to try to keep the start line in view of the trailer as it just makes things easier. We used to be in the habit of communicating where the trailer needs to be placed ahead of the event, but apparently have lost that skill. We need to regain it.
    Lots of issues would have been assisted by simply having the trailer where the food vendor was set up.
    obielando
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    08 Oct 2014 10:01 AM

    I didn't really 'learn' this Sunday, but it was reaffirmed that the weakest part of my car's setup is still between the pedals and the steering wheel.

     

    When do you guys think results will be posted?  I had to take off early Sunday, so I didn't know how it ended up.

    btschafer
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    12 Oct 2014 06:32 PM
    Results will be posted when AxWare helps us figure out how to generate good results. Points will be updated and posted when AxWare decides that we really did have an event #9 and we would like to have those points count this year. Yeah, so it'll all happen when Vitek works some magic. Sorry about the delay. I've tried...
    btschafer
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    14 Oct 2014 04:54 PM
    Results are posted. Season points are updated. As always, let me know if something isn't right ASAP. Thanks!

    Bryan
    bruceleejkd
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    14 Oct 2014 11:14 PM
    I didn't get any season points from PE9. Not sure if this happened to any others or not.
    Pat Witte
    obielando
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    15 Oct 2014 08:16 AM
    Posted By btschafer on 14 Oct 2014 04:54 PM
    Results are posted. Season points are updated. As always, let me know if something isn't right ASAP. Thanks!

    Bryan

    Bryan, I too don't see PE#9 in the Championship points (it seems like it's there for the PAX points).  Thank you for your diligence and always going above and beyond for us.

    btschafer
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    15 Oct 2014 09:02 AM

    Patrick, that's because you were registered at Pat Witte, not Patrick Witte. So, this Pat Witte guy stole your points. The software is stupid that way.  It usually flags this issue but not always. I'll have to re-register you so that your points consolidate to the correct driver. 

    Obie, I'll need your name so I can look at your issue as well. Most common cause is some conflict in driver name, class, car #. Could also be a solar flare, who knows....

    Bryan

    obielando
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    15 Oct 2014 09:03 AM

    I should have been registered as Obren Williams #21 in Street Open index, ES.  2002 Blue MR2.

     

    btschafer
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    15 Oct 2014 01:23 PM

    Obie, I see that you scored 39.53 points in PE#9 for Street Open.  It's in the championship points report.  You scored points in Novice for events 4, 5 & 6, and Street Open for events 7, 8 & 9.  If you are not seeing points for PE#9 make sure you reload the page in your browser.

    Now would be an excellent time to discuss how we might handle drivers who move from Novice to a base Class.  Since we bump people out of Novice after winning or doing three events, should we then somehow consolidate points into their base class?  The significance of this is that Obie would have scored points in 6 events, which is one more than required to compete for a season championship trophy.  A competitor may not win a trophy, but the way it is now someone may be excluded simply because they ran Novice class.  (I'm not asking to do more work, but interested in thoughts on how we might handle this.)

    Bryan

    obielando
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    15 Oct 2014 03:01 PM
    I see the results now - Thanks Bryan...looks like I took 5th, and coned away a better 5th place finish in PE-9

    Regarding the season championship, personally, I don't think it's a huge deal, trying to move points, applying some factor, or whatever...

    Running in Novice provides its own benefit, in my opinion, in that you aren't competing against better drivers. I don't think there would be a fair way to distribute points earned there into another class, without disrupting those drivers.

    I guess if you really wanted to do something, you could let people compete in Novice for their first season, and just calculate points the same way you would for any other indexed class. I don't see it as a huge issue just to leave it the way it is, though.
    btschafer
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    15 Oct 2014 05:14 PM
    Patrick, I recovered your points from that impostor, Pat, and gave them back to you.
    mdavis
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    15 Oct 2014 10:26 PM
    Posted By obie on 15 Oct 2014 03:01 PM

    Regarding the season championship, personally, I don't think it's a huge deal, trying to move points, applying some factor, or whatever...

    Running in Novice provides its own benefit, in my opinion, in that you aren't competing against better drivers. I don't think there would be a fair way to distribute points earned there into another class, without disrupting those drivers.

    I guess if you really wanted to do something, you could let people compete in Novice for their first season, and just calculate points the same way you would for any other indexed class. I don't see it as a huge issue just to leave it the way it is, though.

    Obie, the only reason I would think people running Novice their entire first season is the frustration of good results. I know 1 Novice (co-worker of mine) was frustrated with getting beat by you at the first 2 events he ran, then you moved up to Street, and he was looking forward to the chance at winning Novice in his 3rd event. Ultimately, that didn't happen, and he wasn't overly bitter about it, but if you have someone that thinks "if I don't win this class by my 3rd event, I'm never doing this again", then someone running Novice all year would very likely prevent that. IIRC, you won Novice pretty handily your 3rd event. Imagine if you would have progressed the rest of the year, but kept running Novice. How many people care enough about a trophy that they wouldn't come back because of that? I think 3 and out of Novice is the way to keep going. Unfortunately, it does make season points very difficult.

     

    I don't have a better solution than what we are currently doing, unfortunately. 

    obielando
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    16 Oct 2014 07:43 AM

    That makes sense, and I understand the frustration that could set in.  I don't think there's a an obvious answer to the question, unfortunately - I would tend to agree that as is, is probably the best...

     

    FinnStig
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    16 Oct 2014 09:21 AM
    Bryan,

    How do my year end points look? I only ran a different car and class every event!

    Thank you for all the behind-the-secenes effort you put in with our timing system, software, points, and website...I'll buy you a Budweiser at the next meeting!

    -Chase
    mister2dood
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    16 Oct 2014 07:30 PM
    First, I think it's cool that we have a Novice class. There was one event in particular where I talked to a guy who was there for his first event, and he said something about not being competitive but hoping to have fun, etc. I explained to him how the Novice class works, how everyone in it has < 3 events, and the times are compared on index, and that he had a chance at winning a trophy if he drove relatively smoothly. A $5 trophy is what it is, but for someone showing up for the first time, I think it's cool that they have a legitimate shot at winning something.

    So, I agree with the current 3 and out system...keeps it competitive/fun for the true novices. And for those who decide they like it and do > 3 events in a season, they can look forward to improving driving skill/car/both before the next season and making a run at a class championship.
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