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Last Post 04 May 2015 02:55 PM by  AStockVette
What's the street class "harness" rule?
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Conekilla
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30 Oct 2014 03:34 AM
    I usually compete in Cstreet. I have been seeing more and more cars in my class (or any street class that is) using 4, 5 or 6 point harnesses. Some are fastened to the rear seat belt attachment (kind of like these http://www.schrothracing.com/tuning.../rallye-3) while some are actual 5/6 point harnesses. Most of these are regular coupes (non convertibles). I asked my local autox chapter and their reply "we don't care. It's safety feature". But what's being passed as "safety" is also keeping driver firmly to their seat? Two cars with identical setup in the same class, one with and one without harness, of course with harness car will yield faster time.

    Is it legal to add aftermarket harness in a non convertible car in street category? Here's what SCCA solo rulebook has to say

    kyoo
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    30 Oct 2014 01:19 PM
    its allowed. i used my schroth removable at nationals
    gary p
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    30 Oct 2014 01:51 PM

    The key word in 13.2.H is "allowed." 3.3.1 tells you, in a round-about-way, that non-factory harnesses are included in the allowed. Furthermore, there's language in 13.2.H that allows harness bars to facilitate the use of non-factory harnesses; that verbiage wouldn't need to be there if aftermarket harnesses weren't allowed.

     

    I agree that it's not as clear as it could be (in particular, there's no mention of ASM strap(s))  but the intent is to allow them and "case law" has been established that even 6-point harnesses are allowed in Street in fixed-roof vehicles.  

    93Rubie
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    30 Oct 2014 09:59 PM
    Unless your like me and BOTH your vehicles that could be auto-x'ed have non adjustable headrests that are part of the seat. Since you cannot cut the seat to install a harness, then the only way to run a harness is to run it incorrectly around the headrests. Which creates a safety issue in and of itself. I personally will not run a harness that is NOT installed correctly. Its more hazardous than stock belts.

    At least the Corvette has the Cinch button to lock the lap belt in place. The NC Miata, not so much.
    Conekilla
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    30 Oct 2014 10:29 PM
    Ok thank you guys. I just wasn't sure or wanted to invest into something and have SCCA ask me to remove it at nat events. Has ANYONE EVER been asked to remove 4/5/6 point harness at a SCCA event?
    vreihen
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    31 Oct 2014 06:02 AM

    While wearing a comfortable polo shirt custom-embroidered by SPS, I have twice stopped drivers at regional events from using incorrectly-installed harnesses. One was a case where there were no headrest posts to guide the shoulder straps. The second case was Schroth 4-points where the shoulder straps were attached to the driver's seat anchor bolts (vertically down to the floor), which is specifically prohibited in Schroth's installation directions because it causes spinal compression in even a minor accident. I'll defer explaining spinal compression to Per Schroeder, who pushed for the harness bar allowance that we have today.....

     

    sjfehr
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    31 Oct 2014 07:12 AM
    Posted By Conekilla on 30 Oct 2014 10:29 PM
    Ok thank you guys. I just wasn't sure or wanted to invest into something and have SCCA ask me to remove it at nat events. Has ANYONE EVER been asked to remove 4/5/6 point harness at a SCCA event?

    In convertibles, yes; it's not safe to use upper solid body restraint in an open car without a roll bar, as this would result in your spine becoming the supplementary B-pillar in a rollover crash.  It's a common safety violation in STS, STR, CSP; basically, anywhere people install race seats and harness but no roll bar.   The fix is easy: tie back the shoulder harnesses, and just use the lap belt.  SCCA permits the use of upper body restraint in cars with real roofs and no bar, but I've seen enough flattened roofs that I would never do it.

     

    The OEM seatbelt with OEM seats is always permitted.  I suppose the theory is that it doesn't hold your upper body all that firmly in a rollover and you'd squish out of the way if the car rolled on you.


    gary p
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    31 Oct 2014 09:36 AM
    Posted By 93Rubie on 30 Oct 2014 09:59 PM

    At least the Corvette has the Cinch button to lock the lap belt in place. The NC Miata, not so much.

    I've used the "Emergency Locking Retractor"  feature on a miata (and many other cars) to get the stock 3-point belt locked in.  With the seat back a couple clicks from your regular driving position, give a sharp tug at the belt at your shoulder and it should lock.  Keeping tension on the belt, slide the seat forward to the proper position.  As long as there's tension on the belt, it will stay locked.  I think I've only ever had a belt unlock twice in about 15 years of using this technique.

     

    Yeah, its a safety liability in a rollover in a convertible, but I figure if I rolled a miata at an autocross, I deserved whatever harm came to me. 

    47CP
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    31 Oct 2014 09:36 AM
    Posted By vreihen on 31 Oct 2014 06:02 AM
    As a safety steward, I have twice made up my own rules and randomly enforced them on innocent competitors....

    I went ahead and fixed that for you.  Not that installing a harness correctly is a *bad* idea, I just hate SSS that see themselves as the savior of the world.

     

    I am not sure I can find rulebook verbiage that would back up the rules you enforced.  

    DaveW

    FritzSpeed
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    31 Oct 2014 11:22 AM
    Conekilla,

    When we started in HS we used a CG-Lock on the factory belts. I found that it provided solid restraint and cost a fraction of a 4/5/6 point harness. It's also easy to disable for normal street use.


    http://www.cg-lock.com/autocross.html
    btwyx
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    31 Oct 2014 04:45 PM

    It seems pretty obvious that they're allowed, when the rules say "are allowed". I use a clip in (Scroth) harness because it is a performance advantage. 

     Posted By sjfehr on 31 Oct 2014 07:12 AM 
    SCCA permits the use of upper body restraint in cars with real roofs and no bar, but I've seen enough flattened roofs that I would never do it.

    I've never seen a roll over in autocross, so I take the risk. I have seen a roll over on track, so I never use the harness there, as much as I'd like a harness on track.

    Z3papa
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    31 Oct 2014 05:24 PM
    For verts, you need to look at appendix A for guidelines including the broomstick rule for whether you can implement use of a harness. Ask me how I know and what it's like to discuss the topic with Bob Neff at Nat's.
    vreihen
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    31 Oct 2014 07:32 PM
    Posted By 47CP on 31 Oct 2014 09:36 AM 

    I went ahead and fixed that for you.  Not that installing a harness correctly is a *bad* idea, I just hate SSS that see themselves as the savior of the world.

    Dave,

    I am far from the savior of the world.   Just blessed to have a bunch of observant tech inspectors, who expressed their concern and asked for an opinion before putting stickers on the cars.  The drivers both appreciated the feedback and understood the dangers.  Life is much too short to go running around the paddock policing jack stand use, yelling at event chairs for gassing generators without fire extinguishers present, or carrying a tape measure to check gate widths. 

    Regarding the specific rules, check out 3.3.3 B. 7) for the final answer.  Nothing arbitrary in "must be properly installed" when the product's installation manual tells you specifically not to anchor the shoulder belts vertically to the floor.....

     

    47CP
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    31 Oct 2014 10:20 PM
    You missed my point and made it all in the same sentence...

    I wasn't arguing the actual rule about the harness being properly installed, I was questioning the SSS being the person to enforce said rule.

    But, I know your answer already....the SSS can do whatever they want for participant safety.

    DaveW
    vreihen
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    01 Nov 2014 09:41 AM
    The tech inspectors discovered the problems and did the enforcing. When they are not sure about something, they ask an SSS and/or the event chair for input. There's way too many things that an SSS needs to be concerned about at other parts of any event site during setup to micro-manage tech inspectors.....
    47CP
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    01 Nov 2014 02:12 PM
    As a safety steward, I have twice stopped drivers at regional events from using incorrectly-installed harnesses


    Enough said.

    DaveW
    vreihen
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    01 Nov 2014 07:33 PM
    OK, I fixed it for you. Are you happy now?????
    47CP
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    02 Nov 2014 04:34 PM
    You win the internet. Do you already have the shirt, or do I need to send it to you?

    DaveW
    vreihen
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    02 Nov 2014 06:01 PM
    I already have a few hanging in the weekend section of my closet.....
    Homer23
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    05 Jan 2015 02:16 PM
    From what I'm reading, it's technically only legal to use a 4 pt harness in Street Class, but it's not that big a deal for people to use 5 or 6 pt harnesses.
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