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Last Post 16 Feb 2015 01:38 PM by  cdlong
Comfort and convenience opinion-Window Louvers
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jj2218
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14 Jan 2015 12:17 PM
    I have a '14 Mustang GT base which I am planning to use for F-street. The stock wheel width is 8", but there was an "FP8 Appearance Pack" available as a stand alone option which came with 8.5" wheels. This option also came with window louvers in the package. To do the update/backdate, could I just delete the window louvers under comfort and convenience, and run without them?

    thanks.

    PS- I am looking for 18 x 8.5" wheels for sale. Possibly yellow konis also.
    Dick Rasmussen
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    14 Jan 2015 12:32 PM
    I will soon have a set of yellow Konis for sale from my 2012 GT which only have 1 year and about 10,000 miles use. The struts have the lower mounting hole enlarged per the shop manual to allow more negative camber. $400 plus shipping from Raleigh, NC. Shocks are currently being removed from the 2012 trade-in by the dealer at no cost (THANKS Asheboro Ford).

    I also have a set of oem 18x8 wheels with tpms sensors and almost worn out 265/35 ZII's. Asking price TBD.

    Thanks,
    Dick
    2015 Mustang GT
    FS 50

    jj2218
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    14 Jan 2015 12:42 PM
    If you still have the Konis in 30 days, I may be interested. First Autox isn't until march so I have a little time.
    Dick Rasmussen
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    14 Jan 2015 12:48 PM

    Posted By jj2218 on 14 Jan 2015 12:42 PM
    If you still have the Konis in 30 days, I may be interested. First Autox isn't until march so I have a little time.


    Where are you located? When I get the Konis back from the dealer I can weigh them and estimate shipping cost.

    Thanks,

    Dick
    OZMDD
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    14 Jan 2015 12:57 PM
    To the OP - I don't see how you could delete the louvers under any rule, including C&C. First, it removes weight from the car which is usually not part of CC exceptions, and I also don't see how it achieves comfort or convenience. Not having to install them is not the type of convenience intended, and its gonna be a tough sell that an item made by the manufacturer to be compatible with the existing windows is somehow a hindrance to using the car. I think you're overreaching by a fair bit, and trying to gain a competitive advantage without doing the the full package conversion.
    jj2218
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    14 Jan 2015 01:17 PM
    OZMDD:
    Ok so it's not a big deal to Velcro 6 ounces of plastic to my rear windows, but I don't see how I gain any performance advantage by not having them. The C&C rule speaks of performance gains, and it says must "materially" reduce the weight. OTOH, it is a big vision obstruction when changing lanes or backing up, so I would call that convenience.

    Word this question a different way, if I already had the package, could I remove them under C&C?
    Dick Rasmussen
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    14 Jan 2015 01:21 PM
    To your original question:

    As OZMDD posted it looks like you are stuck with needing the louvers due to "weight". From the order guide for the 2014 there was no 18 or 19 inch 8.5 stand alone wheel option.

    That said I ran Dunlop 265/35x18 ZII's on my 2012 GT automatic on both oem 18x8's and aftermarket 18x8.5's last year and with 40 psi f/r the two sets appeared to me to handle the same. Even with the 8's "corner wear" wasn't an issue at least down to 3/32 tread depth in the tread grooves. The 18x8 set has over 130 runs and about 5K highway miles.
    OZMDD
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    14 Jan 2015 01:27 PM
    In my opinion, no. You aren't gaining performance by removing the louvers, but you are gaining performance by cherry picking the wheels from the package. Similar protests have been upheld. Read up on the Miata R-package steering wheel.
    I doubt local competitors would know/care, but I wouldn't show up to a National event without the louvers in your possession and the Velcro already on the window. 1/2" of wheel is a big enough deal that you'll want to show that you do actually have the package upgrade, even if you've opted to remove the louvers. Hell, throw them in the trunk so folks can see you don't care about the weight. Buying the wheels but not the package seems like a loophole to me, rather than true C&C.
    Dick Rasmussen
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    14 Jan 2015 01:32 PM
    Whatever you get for wheels be sure to stay within the plus/minus offset limit of 7 mm this year (6 mm previously) for the FP8 appearance package oem 19x8.5 wheels, not the 18x8 wheels that came on your car. The offset for one 19x8.5 optional wheel for my 2012 Premium GT was 50 mm so that became the reference for the 18x8.5 wheels I bought.
    jj2218
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    14 Jan 2015 01:34 PM
    Good points. I only want to buy wheels once, so I want to find out my options. I don't mind buying the louvers as long as they aren't a ridiculous OEM price. I do not plan on painting the spoiler black as in the package though.
    Z3papa
    Advanced Member
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    Posts:525


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    15 Jan 2015 05:43 PM
    This is what I found on this....FP8 Appearance Package includes black-painted
    sideview mirrors and rear spoiler, body-color quarter
    window louvers and 19" machined aluminum wheels
    with black-painted windows (coupe only, n/a with GT
    Track Package, Brembo Brake Package, or spoiler delete).

    I assume you don't have the excluded cars and there is no mention of the wheels you reference.

    Edit -- found the wheels listed in another section but there is no discussion on widths.
    Dick Rasmussen
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    Posts:931


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    15 Jan 2015 06:47 PM
    I have a copy of the Dealer Order Guide for 2014 Mustangs. In the Base GT section the wheels in the FP8 package are described as 19x8.5 inch

    FP8 Appearance Package 
    • Black Painted Outside Mirror Skull caps
    • Black Painted Decklid Spoiler
    • Body-Color Quarter Window Louvres
    • 19" X 8.5" Bright Machined-Aluminum Wheel with Black painted
    Windows (64X)
    Note: Not available on Convertible or with GT Track Package, Brembo™
    Brake Package or Spoiler Delete

    In the wheel section of the order guide the wheel description says:
    19" X 8.5" Bright Machined-
    Aluminum Wheel with Black
    painted Windows
    Optional on GT Premium
    {400A/401A} (64X) & with FP8
    Appearance Pkg. {542


    The above wheel is the one that must be used as the reference for offsets when selecting any oem or after market 19x8.5 or 18x8.5 or even 20x8.5 inch wheels for SCCA Street class compliance. Unfortunately I have never been able to find any Ford offset specs for these wheels or the 2012 equivalent 19x8.5.
    I can send a copy of the pdf order guide via e-mail if the OP sends me his email address. The order guide includes pictures of the wheels including the option package/version they belong with.

    Note that the order guide also shows a couple of other styles of 19x8.5 wheels for different versions of the 2014.

    Dick
    jj2218
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    15 Jan 2015 07:19 PM
    Only thing I can find at the moment. http://www.mustangheaven.com/info/2...-Guide.pdf

    I had found something a while back, but now I cant seem to find it. If I could find a part number for the wheels in that package it would help.
    jj2218
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    15 Jan 2015 07:21 PM
    I just assumed they were 50mm offset, since every thing else I can find is 50mm. I do need to find out though since I found some nice wheels with 45mm offset. I am thinking of using the 255/40/19 Rivals since it would be a pinch to use the 275 Hankooks.
    jj2218
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    15 Jan 2015 07:41 PM
    Found the offset. Two different sites list 50mm offset for the wheel which is ford part # DR331007FA.

    Dick Rasmussen
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    Posts:931


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    15 Jan 2015 08:00 PM
    If you are planning on going with 18x8.5 wheels per the Street class +/- 1" inch rule for gearing and/or tire choice there used to be 18x8.5's with 45 mm offset. For example I had a set of Kazera wheels last year but sold them locally. They weighed about 22lbs compared to about 27 for the oem 18x8 wheels.
    jj2218
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    15 Jan 2015 08:39 PM
    The only tires for the 18's make me lose 2" in diameter. I would like to keep the stock gearing in 2nd gear, so I may do the 19's. I found some 19 x 8.5 on tirerack with 45mm, but at 24lbs.
    Dick Rasmussen
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    Posts:931


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    15 Jan 2015 08:58 PM

    Posted By jj2218 on 15 Jan 2015 08:39 PM
    The only tires for the 18's make me lose 2" in diameter. I would like to keep the stock gearing in 2nd gear, so I may do the 19's. I found some 19 x 8.5 on tirerack with 45mm, but at 24lbs.


    Understood. With the automatic's gearing on my 2012 the short 265/35x18's actually helped gearing by giving it the same speed in second as the manuals with 3:31 gears. Plus I owned a set of 18x8 takeoffs so it was the low cost easy button. Then the 18x8.5's were offered at a really good price so I got those for the next set of ZII's.

    Given how well 265/35x18 ZII's worked (at 40 psi) on 18x8's I suspect 275/35x19 stiff sidewall tires like ZIIs will be ok on 19x8.5's. It looks like the best size option for my 2015 GT with performance pack with the 9f/9.5 rear 19's will be 275/35's unless one of the brands comes up with a 255 or 265/35.
    jj2218
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    20 Jan 2015 04:55 PM
    Dick, what speeds were you seeing on course? I am still trying to figure out 18's vs 19's. It would be 64mph vs 69mph.
    Dick Rasmussen
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    20 Jan 2015 05:41 PM

    Posted By jj2218 on 20 Jan 2015 04:55 PM
    Dick, what speeds were you seeing on course? I am still trying to figure out 18's vs 19's. It would be 64mph vs 69mph.


    That is, as you know, a tough question given course variables and the fact that I was relatively slow with my standard GT and automatic. I just checked Nationals and Pro Finale Race Technology data and I think the fastest top speed was about 64 but my rev limiter/gearing/etc. top speed in second was about 66 mph.

    I think all the top 2011 - 2014 Mustangs were on 19's but they also had 9 inch wheels. The Shelby GT's were on 18x8.5s.

    Your biggest issue with being limited to 8.5 inch rims since "not Brembo" version might be tire availability for 19x8.5s. I don't know how well the common 275/35x19 will work on 8.5 inch rims. 265/35 ZIIs were "fine" on 8s and 8.5s.

    The car's ride height/cg will be lowered about 0.7 inch with 265/35x18's compared to the oem 235/50x`8s. This can be a performance advantage and a "ground clearance" disadvantage.

    Budget wise 18 inch tires are less expensive if that helps. It did for me since last year was mostly an experiment and learning opportunity after 20 years of towing a CM FF.
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