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Last Post 20 Jul 2017 09:41 AM by  JRL
2017 Camaro SS 1LE
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christoc
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15 Aug 2016 10:00 PM

    Anyone have any thoughts on classing for the 2017 1LE Camaro?

    How about availability date? Pricing was announced last week, but my dealer doesn't know anything at this time.

    drdisque
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    16 Aug 2016 03:00 PM

    I'm guessing AS (to go with the prior generation Z28 and ZL1) or BS (to go with the mechanically similar ATS-V). Considering it's probably lighter and stiffer than the ATS-V, I'm inclined to go with AS.

    rpalmblad
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    30 Aug 2016 04:20 PM
    Historically, every other factory 1LE has gone to F (Stock back in the day, and Street now). The 2017 1LE package seems a lot like the previous 5th gen, which was in F. The current SS is in F. The 1LE is essentially an SS with a track pack (albeit a superior one to Ford's).This should be an F car, no question in my mind. Will it be the car to have? Probably, but the bar gets raised all the time in street class. I think it's a much better alternative than having to shell out $35,000+ for a used E92 M3 (with known rod bearing issues) to be competetive.
    ZL1 and Z28 are poor comparisons since they both had big power increases and even bigger price increases. It shares a platform with, but is otherwise not similar to the $60,000+ ATS-V (twin turbo 6, shorter and narrower). Just my .02
    Z3papa
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    01 Sep 2016 04:45 PM
    Posted By Robert on 30 Aug 2016 04:20 PM
    Historically, every other factory 1LE has gone to F (Stock back in the day, and Street now). The 2017 1LE package seems a lot like the previous 5th gen, which was in F. The current SS is in F. The 1LE is essentially an SS with a track pack (albeit a superior one to Ford's).This should be an F car, no question in my mind. Will it be the car to have? Probably, but the bar gets raised all the time in street class. I think it's a much better alternative than having to shell out $35,000+ for a used E92 M3 (with known rod bearing issues) to be competetive.
    ZL1 and Z28 are poor comparisons since they both had big power increases and even bigger price increases. It shares a platform with, but is otherwise not similar to the $60,000+ ATS-V (twin turbo 6, shorter and narrower). Just my .02

    I disagree and think your assessment is in the extreme minority.  The current SS which is 300-400# lighter than the previous 1LE are on par with eachother because the prior gen 1LE makes up for the weight by having wider wheels and ultimately now wider tires.  If the 2017 1LE were put into FS, it would make it a spec 1LE class at a time when the class is enjoying it's greatest strength in years.  It would make a very reasonable BS car in my opinion.


    rpalmblad
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    20 Sep 2016 12:41 PM
    I think it's acceleration capability would make it too fast for BS, creating a course dependent overdog, but I wouldn't mind seeing in there to give the Corvettes a run for their money. Unfortunately, it will probably get buried in AS like the GT350 and no one will bother to bring them out. At least until the next gen Mustang comes out and raises the bar, in which case it'll probably wind up in FS eventually.
    twistedwankel
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    20 Sep 2016 01:45 PM
    The twist here will be there are two 1LE's the SS V8 and the V6 both carry that option in 2017. Maybe one can go to A or BS and one can go to F or GS? Or just send them both to traditional FS and see what happens at Nationals yet again?

    There were so many official proposals for moving cars in classes but it doesn't seem like very many will make the cut in the final version. The current wakeup call in an unofficial temporary class is the Focus RS running in BS is very very fast with it's trick diff and 350hp/350tq awd = the same power as a C5. It will probably stay there with the Sti and Evo?
    drdisque
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    21 Sep 2016 11:47 AM
    On most courses, the STI and Evo are no longer competitive in BS.

    So really the comparison for the FoRS in BS should be to the AP2 S2000 and C5.
    twistedwankel
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    21 Sep 2016 01:11 PM
    Posted By drdisque on 21 Sep 2016 11:47 AM
    On most courses, the STI and Evo are no longer competitive in BS.

    So really the comparison for the FoRS in BS should be to the AP2 S2000 and C5.

    No disagreement there.  Only using their continued existence to make it likely the F0RS will stay in BS next year.

     

     

    Back to the original post I looked it up.  The May, 2016 Fastrack, page 6 clearly in red states the 2015 SS 1LE is moved to FS.  It would follow that if prior years of the same car are recently moved to FS then the 2017 SS 1LE would also move there.  This addition is also marked clearly in red in the last update to the Rule Book.

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    drdisque
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    22 Sep 2016 01:49 AM
    It was not "Moved" to FS, the 2013-2014 1LE was already in FS, the correction in 2016 was to also add 2015 to that line. The 2013-2015 1LE are for all intents and purposes the same car, so I don't think you can read too much into that.
    cretinx
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    22 Sep 2016 12:48 PM
    Where's the hot Mustang? AS

    That's where the hot Camaro belongs.
    Grintch
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    23 Sep 2016 05:05 PM

    But the 1LE isn't the hot Camaro, it's the lukewarm Camaro. Remember the Boss 302 is now in FS.

    Course it would help if the fast cars went into, AS, the less fast cars into BS, the even less fast into CS... rather than classing cars together because they look the same, or have the engine in the same place, or have the same wheels driven.  Then when the new wondermobile comes out that's a good bit faster than last years wondermobile, it could easily and clearly fit in the next class up rather than 5 classes up.

    Z3papa
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    26 Sep 2016 06:44 PM
    Posted By Grintch on 23 Sep 2016 05:05 PM

    But the 1LE isn't the hot Camaro, it's the lukewarm Camaro. Remember the Boss 302 is now in FS.

    Course it would help if the fast cars went into, AS, the less fast cars into BS, the even less fast into CS... rather than classing cars together because they look the same, or have the engine in the same place, or have the same wheels driven.  Then when the new wondermobile comes out that's a good bit faster than last years wondermobile, it could easily and clearly fit in the next class up rather than 5 classes up.

    Let's be clear, the 2017 1SS (V8) 1LE is as hot in terms of performance as the uber high performance predecessor Z28 which is in AS.  The only reason why the "luke warm" (tell that to Ryan Otis) Camaro is hot is because they didn't have the 1LE in 2016.  It is utterly foolish to say we should class all cars together that look the same.  If that were the case do we class the ZR1 Corvette or the C7Z06 with the base Vette....answer = no.  Do we class the 997.2 GT3 with the base 911...no.    Same thing for the GT350R vs. GT350 vs. GT Mustangs.  AS is not 5 classes up from FS unless you somehow believe DS and ES are considered above FS in terms of performance.  AS, BS and CS are considered above FS in terms of performance.  Obviously, they are not going to put it in CS so the question is AS or BS unless they want to toss out the class resurgence which has been FS from the days it only had 15 cars at Nat's. 


    twistedwankel
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    26 Sep 2016 08:07 PM

     

    The antique WS6 is still banished from the stock classes.  Put all these designer cars there.  NOT stock.

    Grintch
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    27 Sep 2016 09:53 AM

    I am not saying we SHOULD class based on looks & configuration, I am saying we DO (at least sometimes).  Basically FS now contains 90% of the Camaro's and Mustangs ever produced.  So a 1982 Mustang GT with 160hp is in the same class with a 444hp 2014 Boss 302.  Classing should be based purely on performance.

    Compare this with the case for Corvette's and Miata's, where we have a half dozen spec classes for every generation of car.

    Has the hot Camaro or Mustang ever been competitive in AS?  I don't think so.

     

    According the PAX the fastest stock classes are:

    SS - should be AS (S comes way after A)

    AS

    BS

    CS

    FS - should be DS (or ES) based on performance

    DS

    ES

    GS

    HS

     

    I can't remember all the times I have had to explain SCCA classing to folks who didn't understand why there where missing classes or classes that were faster than other classes that were higher in the class structure.

    The outlawed WS6 is another problem.  A car gets classed, or outlawed, and 30 years later it is still in the same class despite being long since overtaken in performance.  This seems to happen a lot for anything that has a name that doesn't start with Miata or Corvette (great cars but why do they get special classing treatment?).

    Z3papa
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    27 Sep 2016 05:00 PM
    We might have found out whether the 2015 Z28 was competitive in AS had Corsaro run but he bagged out at the last minute. I'd bet there will be some guys i 2017 1LE's willing to run their car in AS or BS, just to have a base line comparison.
    drdisque
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    28 Sep 2016 03:55 PM
    As per your "the car gets surpassed but left in the same class" - this is because nobody writes a letter.

    I wrote a letter about a bunch of slow cars that were still classed in GS and nearly all of them were moved to HS as the result of the letter.

    So if you feel a car is really misclassed, then write a letter.

    That being said, very limited production cars that are on the exclusion list will probably stay there. The WS6 now has the option of running in CAMC.
    lost won
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    20 Oct 2016 04:38 PM
    Posted By Chris Hammond on 15 Aug 2016 10:00 PM

    Anyone have any thoughts on classing for the 2017 1LE Camaro?

    How about availability date? Pricing was announced last week, but my dealer doesn't know anything at this time.

    I've been following this on the Gen6 Camaro forum.  The first 2017 (V-8) 1LE started production this week (Oct 17, 2016); and should be delivered to the new owner by next week.  It's time for a classification.  Maybe Dec. 2016 Fastrack?

    Considering the Sep Nats F Street win by Ryan Otis in his non-1LE 2016 SS Camaro V-8, (8.5" front wheels), the '17 1LE V-8 (10" front wheels) would be a certain overdog in F Street.   A Street is where they bumped the new BMW M4, and that might be a good place to start the new 1LE.   Should be interesting how it all falls out.

     Update:  First (documented)2017 V-8 1LE customer delivery was Friday, Oct. 28, 2016, in Michigan.

    Second Unrelated Update:  First (documented) 2017 ZL1 (yeah, 650 HP) Camaro delivered 11/2/2017 in Kentucky.  Probably won't be in F Street, even if it is just another Camaro...

    mcynet
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    18 Nov 2016 09:14 PM
    What you are all forgetting is that wider wheels and tires help but it is not everything to classing... Basicly the Wider Wheels and Tires on the 1LE are it for advantages. any other advantage is almost Nill. The new 10 speed automatic trans has more advantages in the new camaro ZL1 and they don't offer an Automatic on the 1LE. So basicly you want to reclass the car because wider wheels. I had a 2014 1LE and a 2016 SS while I like the control of the 2016 better it is not an over dog. I can tell you that I have run wider tires in both and it makes a little better but I downsized tires on my 1LE and was faster. You have another issue. What tires are you going to use... The RE71 has limited sizes in a 19" and if you move to the Rival well your losing traction there too. So while I Understand the hype I'm not buying into it. I heard Last year that the 2016 Camaro was going to destroy every car in FS Well look at nationals. It didn't happen. Here are the cold hard numbers. Ryan was right next to me in the paddock and he was running smaller tires than me I had 285 Square and He had 275,
    Ryan Otis 2016 Chevrolet Camaro 118.215
    Courtney Cormier 2015 Chevrolet Camaro SS 118.272
    Mark Scroggs 2015 Ford Mustang Fastback 118.825

    SO... The top 3 places were 3 different cars and the top 2 were only .057 apart you know as well as I do that could have easily went to Courtney over Ryan or even Mark just a few tenths back. If it went that way would we even be having this conversation...
    My take the 1LE belongs in FS. when the 2018 Mustang track pack comes out with the carbon Fiber wheels and all the new tricks they will be having the same argument, there's always a new hot car in street class if its the 1LE this year so be it I will still run against it the better driver is the one that wins 99 times out of 100 when the cars are close.
    Z3papa
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    19 Nov 2016 10:19 PM
    So the old 1LE which you had which weighed in 250-300 lbs more than the current gen Camaro was competitive but lost on the now wider RE71R's to the current Camaro on much thinner wheels/tires and you really suggest that if you put much wider wheels/tires on the current gen which is much lighter, it would not be a class buster. Glad to know that Probst proved this completely wrong when he took the current 2017 1LE on the track and beat the prior gen Z28 times.
    lost won
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    20 Nov 2016 02:35 AM


    Z3papa:  I'm  not sure about the relevance of track times to autocross;  but a 1LE beating the Z28 on a track  is interesting.  Do you have a source/link?  I'd like to see more about  this....

    nevermind, Google is my friend.  I see that Pobst (WHO is this guy Probst?  Is he faster than Pobst??) ran 1:37:82 in 2014 in the Z28.  In 2015, he ran 1:37:78  in the 2017 1LE.  Fair  enough.  But really, 4 hundredths a year  later?   Skinny win.  How about same day results to brag on.  

    I'm still impressed with the 2017 1LE at the price point, and  I still  think it will  get bumped to AS or BS.  We should get a reading soon...

    Or maybe Not.  The December  Fastrack  has posted; and page 16 says  in response to a letter that the  "SAC is waiting on more real-world data before deciding on the SS 1LE  classification."   Maybe we should start sending  them some links.  What do you suppose they  need?   Something  to put the 1LE in  AS vs. BS? 

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