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Last Post 26 Sep 2011 11:32 AM by  solo-x
BSP may rise from the dead
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CHRISFP78
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20 May 2010 09:52 AM

    http://www.scca.org/documents/Fastr...e-solo.pdf

    EVO to ASP. My only question is what about the STI??

    boardkat
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    20 May 2010 10:08 AM

    i know this thread JUST started but...



    i'm really interested to hear what those vested in BSP builds think. especially the evo guys (off to the solo2 forums i go!). my personal feeling is that moving the evo to ASP does to it what has already happened to every single other car in BSP (gxp, s2k, c4, mazdaspeed miata) - relegated it to a an also-ran at best, sans rain. agree with the OP that if the evo goes, so too should the STI. what of the latest gen of WRX, too? this could get messy... [:(]

    Chiketkd
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    20 May 2010 10:15 AM

    CHRISFP78 wrote:
    EVO to ASP. My only question is what about the STI??

    I'm sure a few SPAC members will add their $0.02, but imho, the STi hasn't shown to be the Evo's equal in SP trim. It has disadvantages in gearing, turbo size, etc in comparison to the Evos. I like this proposal. I like it a lot!

    The SPAC is finally starting to acknowledge that the "rally cars" aren't all created equal.

    splash
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    20 May 2010 10:25 AM

    The STi never could run with the EVO in a non-boost regulated class.

    Truth of the matter is, with no boost regs, the size of the turbo determines the power level achieved, not the PSI. If the STi ever gets a sufficient turbo, maybe it will need moved up for the same reason.

    For comparison, there are EVO's in STU with ~320whp, and they're still regulated. The one I'm aware of isn't even using 'boost creep' to get it.. It would not surprise me to find out that BSP ones were approaching 400whp or so. The highest stock turbo (VF39/43/48) STi I've seen without meth and without an EWG has about 340-350 on E85, and he's blown the #4 ringland twice now.

    IMO, of course.

    TedDBere
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    20 May 2010 10:49 AM

    Just an opinion here, which is worth very little, but it seemed to me as a bystander that BSP had a dominant car (EVO) that could only dominate by increasing the boost, making the car unreliable and expensive to run (trans, diff and seal issues) combined with a manufacturer who was known to void warranties at the drop of a hat.

    If a car is unreliable in competitive form, and the manufacturer doesn't support it, then it probably doesn't deserve to be the "car to have" in a class and should be buried, IMHO.

    talon95
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    20 May 2010 10:58 AM

    What about the newer STI? It has more room for tires/wheels, but still has the short gearing. Not sure where it falls.

    Dave G.

    Chiketkd
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    20 May 2010 11:33 AM
    talon95 wrote:
    What about the newer STI? It has more room for tires/wheels, but still has the short gearing. Not sure where it falls.

    Dave G.

    Newer STI is in BSP. It has short gearing and a turbo that's the same as the '07 STi iirc. So it has the same/similar achilles heel as the earlier STI's.

    boardkat
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    20 May 2010 01:05 PM
    letter sent.
    btw, nice job on the new letter submission site, brian! now i don't have to feel like my letter just disappeared into a black hole after i send it! [:D]
    Chiketkd
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    20 May 2010 01:16 PM

    boardkat wrote:
    btw, nice job on the new letter submission site, brian! now i don't have to feel like my letter just disappeared into a black hole after i send it! [:D]

    +1 For those that don't remember the web address it is: [url]http://sebscca.com/[/url]

    I'm going to send in my letter tonight...

    solo-x
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    20 May 2010 01:38 PM

    As others said, the STi is handicapped with a small turbo and a short 2nd gear. If things change with that particular car, then we can re-evaluate. As it is, it fits nicely with an EVO free BSP, IMO.

    The EVO doesn't look like a bad car to run in ASP to me. It's got enough giddyup, can fit the required rubber. It's advantages in Pro Solo will keep it as a popular car so long as people can afford to keep them running. If anything, I think the EVO will fall out of favor for reasons other then its competitiveness.

    Nate

    NJGT3
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    20 May 2010 02:25 PM

    I don't know much or anything for that matter about the Evo, but I have heard the rumors that on E85 these cars are running North of 400whp.

    I don't think the Evo is an ASP car, but one of my assumptions is that they are running 360whp, and the power-to-weight ratio is comparable to other cars in BSP (S2000, Boxster, Cayman, etc). However, at 400+ whp and under 3,000 lbs, they look better on paper than a 996/997 GT3 (360-380 whp) and they benefit from AWD. At 420whp, the Evo should do well in ASP.

    So, to obtain some information, I spoke to the owner of a Red Evo RS running this week at a go-kart track, he is running E85 (funny smell), he is on the stock Turbo, and he gained 40whp switching to E85. He is currently running 27psi, but he says he could run more boost, although he is afraid that is not reliable for his car as a daily driver. Not long ago he was holding the lap record for that track.

    Can the Evo compete against the top ASP cars? Surely. Can the Evo win? Yes. Is the Evo the car to have? I don't think so.

    I don't think so, because it is not the lightest, and it is not the most powerful car in ASP either. If it rains, definitely the Evo is the car to have. For a ProSolo I would prefer an Evo as well. But for autocross, even though it is competitive, it won't be the top car for the class. I think a well developed Nissan GTR, 600Hp Viper ACR, 996 GT2, Exige S, ZR1 could or should do better. Anyway, more often than not, the best driver wins despite of the car driven.

    The one thing I'm not so sure is the sudden expected growth in BSP if the Evo is moved to ASP.


    Mhyrr
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    20 May 2010 02:33 PM
    NJGT3 wrote:

    The one thing I'm not so sure is the sudden expected growth in BSP if the Evo is moved to ASP.

    I think this is based off the long list of cars sitting right now in the Evo's shadow. C4 Corvette, E36 M3, E46 M3, M Coupe, 135, S2000, Boxster/Cayman, Solstice GXP, 350Z. That's a big list of interesting cars.

    OasisTan
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    20 May 2010 04:00 PM

    Joe Silva ran Bob Buxbaums very underprepped Saturn Sky at Forbes Field. He said he would definitely have been faster in the Sky than my Evo for that given course just a couple weeks ago. Also, the 135i can obtain 400+HP/TQ and could be a BSP monster as well. Problem is, only a few guys are developing them. So, those who want to move the Evo, how do you know its quicker unless you buk the fuk up and prep your car and show up to National Events? Quit bench racing and show up for a change? I know for a fact a FULLY prepped Solstice/Sky would be competitive with the Evo on a solo course. I am sure the 135i would be as well as a few others on the list.

    To be honest, I am awfully tired of debating given cars are overdogs in given classes only to have MY car moved or proposed to be moved to another class after I have fully prepped my cars nearly every single year since I began autocrossing with the exception of my first season.

    So, anyone want to buy a fully prepped BSP Evo? Today? 22K miles and in excellent condition, never been wrecked, SE trim package about $45-50K invested(after purchasing in virgin form for $26800 last season before the build). I'll take $34K for it if so, and, I am going to find another hobby where I don't have to spend $30-35k if I want a newer competitive prepped car every season. OK, OK, so, maybe I will still autocross, but, this pisses me off bigtime.

    Why let member fully prep cars for 2-3 years only to make them uncompetitive because someone THINKS that the other cars, that they don't have the Nuttsak to prep, won't be competitive? It just doesn't make sense to me.

    OasisTan
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    20 May 2010 04:06 PM
    Mhyrr wrote:
    NJGT3 wrote:

    The one thing I'm not so sure is the sudden expected growth in BSP if the Evo is moved to ASP.

    I think this is based off the long list of cars sitting right now in the Evo's shadow. C4 Corvette, E36 M3, E46 M3, M Coupe, 135, S2000, Boxster/Cayman, Solstice GXP, 350Z. That's a big list of interesting cars.

    How many have seriously been prepped and driven by National Championship caliber drivers? Who is to say some of them wouldn't be competitive right now? There are some on the list(Solstice for sure) that I know for a fact are 100% capable with the correct driver/build

    boardkat
    Basic Member
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    Posts:350


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    20 May 2010 04:19 PM
    OasisTan wrote:
    So, anyone want to buy a fully prepped BSP Evo? Today? 22K miles and in excellent condition, never been wrecked, SE trim package about $45-50K invested(after purchasing in virgin form for $26800 last season before the build). I'll take $34K for it if so, and, I am going to find another hobby where I don't have to spend $30-35k if I want a newer competitive prepped car every season. Why let member fully prep cars for 2-3 years only to make them uncompetitive because someone THINKS that the other cars, that they don't have the Nuttsak to prep, won't be competitive?

    would you take a BS solstice gxp for trade & some cash? [;)]
    but seriously, i feel your pain. you saw what the tak/berry-mobile did to the class. you put your money where your mouth was, and damn near took it to the top in under a year with a combination of prep and awesome driving ability (seeing the time after your re-run in lincoln was painful). if i were in your shoes, i'd be po'd too.
    RichJones
    New Member
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    Posts:13


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    20 May 2010 04:22 PM
    NJGT3 wrote:

    I don't know much or anything for that matter about the Evo, but I have heard the rumors that on E85 these cars are running North of 400whp.

    I don't think the Evo is an ASP car, but one of my assumptions is that they are running 360whp, and the power-to-weight ratio is comparable to other cars in BSP (S2000, Boxster, Cayman, etc). However, at 400+ whp and under 3,000 lbs, they look better on paper than a 996/997 GT3 (360-380 whp) and they benefit from AWD. At 420whp, the Evo should do well in ASP.

    Your first assumption was correct. In BSP trim, an Evo IX makes 360-370whp on a Mustang Dyno. There's no way an Evo is at 400whp on stock turbo and is BSP legal (on a Mustang Dyno, at least)

    OasisTan
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    20 May 2010 04:29 PM

    boardkat wrote:
    OasisTan wrote:
    So, anyone want to buy a fully prepped BSP Evo? Today? 22K miles and in excellent condition, never been wrecked, SE trim package about $45-50K invested(after purchasing in virgin form for $26800 last season before the build). I'll take $34K for it if so, and, I am going to find another hobby where I don't have to spend $30-35k if I want a newer competitive prepped car every season. Why let member fully prep cars for 2-3 years only to make them uncompetitive because someone THINKS that the other cars, that they don't have the Nuttsak to prep, won't be competitive?

    would you take a BS solstice gxp for trade & some cash? [;)]
    but seriously, i feel your pain. you saw what the tak/berry-mobile did to the class. you put your money where your mouth was, and damn near took it to the top in under a year with a combination of prep and awesome driving ability (seeing the time after your re-run in lincoln was painful). if i were in your shoes, i'd be po'd too.

    Thanks!

    To add to this crap proposal, I am having a very bad day, then, I get this shiat proposal with this Fastrack. Once the poo clears, I will settle down and write a sensible letter. ;-)

    OasisTan
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    20 May 2010 04:30 PM

    boardkat wrote:
    OasisTan wrote:


    would you take a BS solstice gxp for trade & some cash? [;)]

    Uhh, maybe. ;-) If so, after I settle down, I will build it for BSP and save the Evo's! ;-) lol, or, at least attempt to!

    boardkat
    Basic Member
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    Posts:350


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    20 May 2010 04:36 PM

    OasisTan wrote:

    boardkat wrote:
    OasisTan wrote:


    would you take a BS solstice gxp for trade & some cash? [;)]

    Uhh, maybe. ;-) If so, after I settle down, I will build it for BSP and save the Evo's! ;-) lol, or, at least attempt to!


    that 20-25k required for car prep you talk about for your evo? yeah, that's what's keeping me from giving it a go. alex at least has the ability, know-how, $$$ and stones to try! i've got none of the above [:P]

    OasisTan
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    20 May 2010 04:43 PM
    boardkat wrote:

    OasisTan wrote:

    boardkat wrote:
    OasisTan wrote:


    would you take a BS solstice gxp for trade & some cash? [;)]

    Uhh, maybe. ;-) If so, after I settle down, I will build it for BSP and save the Evo's! ;-) lol, or, at least attempt to!


    that 20-25k required for car prep you talk about for your evo? yeah, that's what's keeping me from giving it a go. alex at least has the ability, know-how, $$$ and stones to try! i've got none of the above [:P]

    haha, I can understand. If I had a solstice, I would have already done it. If I could do BSP all over again, I would have built a Solstice for sure. Easy on tires, handles a helluva lot better, can be a bit lighter, fits 315's. thousands less to purchase than an Evo, very good torque, good power, quicker than an Evo on some courses......

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