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Last Post 15 Feb 2001 08:47 PM by  NBM LS1 M6
I was just wondering?
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QWKBLKGT
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09 Jan 2001 02:32 PM
    OK guys, you will have to forgive me for this one. I was going to be new to the SCCA events, but decided not to because of a personal conflict with some people in my area. What I am wondering is this......Some friends of mine and I used to drag race, and well soe of the people who autocross in my area looked down on us, and said it takes no talent to drive in a straight line. OK I will give you that, but I thought the whole point was to have fun, am I wrong? I mean I grew up at Mid Ohio gpoing to constant driving schools with my dad and his friends, which believe me was a heck of alot of fun. However my bank account is growing, but is not large enogh to do the kind of racing I would like to do. So could someone tell me what is wrong with drag racing? Besides how many of you here dont get into a light to light street race every once in a while?
    Regretfully the keys to my GT are hung up until I get a good invitation to get it out.
    For now I must drive an import just to fit in around here SCCAForums Image
    CamaroFS34
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    09 Jan 2001 04:08 PM
    I say, screw 'em, show up and prove 'em wrong. If they don't change their attitude, just try to convince your own group of friends to come out with you. You're right, it [i]is[/i] supposed to be fun, but unfortunately, sometimes you have to work to make it so. SCCAForums Image

    Karen Kraus
    1996 Camaro Z28 1LE (FS34) [url="http://www.erols.com/kiirenza/trisk"]http://www.erols.com/kiirenza/trisk[/URL]

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    Dave Schotz
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    09 Jan 2001 04:12 PM
    Qwkblk... Hey buddy, I love Drag Racing, and think it makes you twice the person, when you can go out and Spank some Road Racer's, Auto-Xers, and then you go to the Drag Strip, and run a low 12, with 2 degrees Negative Camber up Front, on 275/40's! I say run em all... And as far as budget... before you go spending money like it is outta style... first learn how to drive the car, auto x takes a lot of talent, that will take you some time to get used to! (But you may have to put that front sway bar back on! SCCAForums Image
    Dave

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    Weapon: White 2001 Z-06
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    GT1Vette
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    09 Jan 2001 04:37 PM
    Racin' is racin' - some SCCA-types think that circle-burning is beneath them as well, but can be a LOT of fun, you can run every weekend and they pay money besides. Drag racing is even more available to the average person than autocrossing and, again, you can run every weekend if you want. And if it's easy, how come the same guys win all the time?

    I prefer road racing because I feel the driver has more influence over the eventual outcome, but I've run quarter miles of both the straight AND circular versions in the past. The important thing is to have fun...

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    Butch Kummer: Corner worker, (former) Solo I steward, Road Racer
    QWKBLKGT
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    09 Jan 2001 05:11 PM
    Hey I wanted to thank you for your replies.
    Just a little info, I am running an 88 GT with some slight mods which I believe puts me in ESP. I have my sway bars still on, wit new end links. I also have Hotchkis upper and lower rear control arms. I am running 275/40 ZR-17's and the car runs low 12's on the spray. I had to make the car fast and well rounded just to show some people up. I am sure some of you know how that is. I was going to Autocross, but the personal conflicts are way to deep to do so, but thank you for the encouragement. I am glad to see, just like in the people I have met drag racing there are some down to earth people here as well. Thank you very much for your reply.
    NBM LS1 M6
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    09 Jan 2001 06:27 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by QWKBLKGT:
    [b]OK guys, you will have to forgive me for this one. I was going to be new to the SCCA events, but decided not to because of a personal conflict with some people in my area. . .[/b]


    Hey. . . I like drag racing. I'd like to try road racing. However, I have resolved to restrict my weekend "adventures" to local autox events for the time being for two reasons, to wit personal finances and family priorities. The wife lets me have my car enthusiast passions, and I reciprocate my love, honor, and respect for her and her patience by tempering my enthusiasum a bit. SCCAForums Image

    Bob Hempy
    CSCC Solo2
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    PGM '95 Z28 A4
    NBM '98 Z28 M6
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    [This message has been edited by NBM LS1 M6 (edited January 09, 2001).]
    Cheever2
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    09 Jan 2001 07:41 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by QWKBLKGT:
    [b]I am running an 88 GT[/b]
    What [i]kind[/i] of GT, i.e. a GT [i]what[/i]?
    Would you be a fellow Fiero owner by chance?
    Do I know you by another name?
    BTW, I agree "racing is racing".
    Davard
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    09 Jan 2001 09:21 PM
    The clue to what type of GT is in the Hotchkiss upper and lower control arms. Also ESP. It's a Mustang GT, right?

    Also helps that they make great (cheap) drag race cars.

    I've heard arguments that the advantage of autocrossing, besides being more applicable to improving your everyday driving skills, is that you get at least three 45-90 second runs, rather than just a few 12 sec ones.

    Of course, road racers and open trackers might counter that they get spend an hour or more on racing.

    Just have fun with what you're doing. If you ever get bored with drag racing, know you'll be warmly accepted in the autocrossing, or road racing, community.

    Oh, and the only times I race people on the street is to get ahead of them before my favorite stretch of winding road. (Also on ramps. I just like entering the freeway at 65 instead of 25.)

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    David Avard
    '90 Mazda Protege LX

    [This message has been edited by Davard (edited January 11, 2001).]
    NBM LS1 M6
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    09 Jan 2001 09:45 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by QWKBLKGT:
    [b]. . . Besides how many of you here dont get into a light to light street race every once in a while? [/b]


    I guess that is one of the things I like about the regulars among the SCCA autox crowd. Perhaps it's just a perception, and I'm wrong, but I feel like I'm not rubbing shoulders with people who participate in street racing or "stoplight to stoplight activities."

    I guess it's a pet peeve of mine. I shouldn't point fingers, as I did some of that stuff when I was younger, and now I'm a stuffy old senior citizen. SCCAForums Image

    However, I drive a couple cars that have a very bad reputation for 17 year old kids wrapping them around trees. As a result (I believe), the insurance on my cars is rather high. When my insurance went through the roof three years ago just because of a couple minor out of state speeding tickets smearing an otherwise accident free record for the past 25 years, I thought about those young street racer types ever time I mailed in my $4K a year insurance premiums. Then there was my previous insurance agent. . . the one who wanted to know why I wanted to own that type of car in the first place.

    Yup, over the past three years, I've thought a lot about those street racer types driving my brand of car every time I thought about being "fined" an extra $6K in insurance premiums for the only two tickets I have received in the past 13 years. SCCAForums Image

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    Bob Hempy
    SoPac CSCC GRA
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    NBM 1998 Z28 M6
    PGM 1995 Z28 A4

    [This message has been edited by NBM LS1 M6 (edited January 09, 2001).]
    QWKBLKGT
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    10 Jan 2001 07:33 PM
    NBM, I guess I can understand your pet peeve.
    I have no problem with the people who dislike it, my grievance is with those who look down on the rst who do it. I also have a problem with the people who think they are better because they have more done to their car that they didnt pay for(i.e. the 16-17 year olds whose parents paid for their car)
    I mean great if you have it like that, but please just because yours may be newer or better, doesnt mean that you are. I dont know maybe I am just confused, or it is just the fact that I have had to work for what I have like the rest of us? All I can say is that it is mine, and i paid for it, and all of the stuff on it. EVEN IF I DO STILL OWE ON SOME OF IT.....LOL. Well guys take it easy, and thanks for the positive feedback!
    Mark Hirt
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    10 Jan 2001 08:16 PM
    I have a problem with street racers.

    I have read too many stories of "innocent bystanders" getting killed by street racers. If you die racing it's your fault, your choice, but the poor Mom, Dad, Son, Daughter.... that just happened to be in the wrong place while someone else was having a little harmless fun did not make that choice. I know everyone is real careful but I'll bet the last person who took someone's life was real careful too.
    Toms6893
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    10 Jan 2001 08:44 PM
    Hey Qwkblkgt,
    Thats why i do both drag racing and auto-x. I can run my 93 through the cones and my 68 down the strip doing 118mph. But i can't run the 68 through cones, no sway bars and drum brakes all the way around. I know what the 93 does in the quarter mile but its more fun going around turns in that car. So if your friends have something to prove tell them to prove it where ever they want.

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    93 Mustang GT Convertable
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    All work and no racing makes Tom very mad...
    NBM LS1 M6
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    10 Jan 2001 08:49 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by QWKBLKGT:
    [b]. . . So could someone tell me what is wrong with drag racing? Besides how many of you here dont get into a light to light street race every once in a while?. . . [/b]


    Based on the previous couple posts, I went back and took another look at how this thread originally began. Sure enough, quoted above is the linkage that concerns me.

    Look at the original post in it's unabridged form if you wish, but I believe the context is the same. In the portion quoted above, I have merely edited out what preceeds and what follows in that original post.

    I like taking my car(s) to the drag strip on occasion, but I don't want to give anyone the impression that all drag racers are street racers too.

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    Bob Hempy
    SoPac CSCC GRA
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    NBM 1998 Z28 M6
    PGM 1995 Z28 A4
    Mark Hirt
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    11 Jan 2001 02:42 AM
    I have no problems with with drag racing either. Just the racers who inssist on doing it on the street. It like autocross belongs on the track.

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    [url="http://sites.netscape.net/hirtmark/"]Mark Hirt[/URL]
    2000 Totyota Celica GT
    QWKBLKGT
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    11 Jan 2001 06:33 AM
    OK guys, I think you maybe misunderstood where I was coming from. OK just like the idiots here in Ohio that Autocross and think they are better, there are the drag racers that give the rest of us a bad name.
    I was originally talking about a little light to light battle, you know a sprint to 45-60 mph, NOT a full out 110 mph pass through a freaking school zone, give me a break. The only street racing I ever did was on some old back roads, with no people around. Also if a street race goes on in the middle of nowhere and someone who goes to watch is hurt or killed, that would be their own fault. Just like going to an Indy car race and getting hit by debris, you made the choice to go, and that is what happens.
    This little question I had started a debate that proves exactly why I am not going to be new to the SCCA events here in central Ohio, and why my bitterness originally formed.
    My sincerest apologies to those of you who gave me positive feedback. I guess I will go back to putting on my jeans with holes in them, and my grease stained T-shirt, hanging up my shirt and tie, and go back to hanging out with the hillbillies at the strip and at Pep Boys on weekends. Now I never condoned the killing of innocent bystanders, but like I said I was talking about a light to light jump. Now if those of you that have a problem with this have never put your foot into it on the street then I would have to say you are full of it.
    OK and with that I am going to try and pull my name off of here since I am not worthy, and stick to my Mustang sites. I am going to trade my Hotchkis control arms in on some Southside lift bars. Fill my blue bottle,pull my sway bars off, trade my G-Force tires in on some drag radials, and head for the 1/4 mile.
    OK I know some of this may have souded extreme, and I am sorry. I was only asking why some Auto crossers and road racers look down on the rest of us? I ALWAYS thought the point was to have fun. Never ever did I talk about killing anyone in some kind of a street brawl? I like my drivers liscense as much as the rest of you do. I am 23 now, and have had one ticket, so maybe I am not part of the extreme crowd?
    By the way Tom, I am glad someone found that there is fun in both, and you couldnt have picked two better cars.
    Thanks again for the positive feedback, and good luck to everyone in their new season!
    floridaracer
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    11 Jan 2001 08:13 AM
    i do feel that the entire point in both racing is to have fun. but clicking off low 12's and 13's at a 1/4 strip gets boring very quickly.....and while 12's and 13's are average on the 1/4 mile it can get very dangerous (fun) on an autocross track. Especially since we race in the rain, which ups the skill level a lot.

    and i feel autocross racing is definately more available for the everyday person. while a 15 second car at the drag strip is boring, its fun as hell on an autocross track. I see more people running the Stock class than any other class, how many cars at the drag strip to you see unmodified? hardly any...

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    Mike - 80 Z/28
    Solo2 CP? Street Mod? where do i go?
    [url="http://www.floridaracer.com"]www.floridaracer.com[/URL]
    NBM LS1 M6
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    11 Jan 2001 08:31 AM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by QWKBLKGT:
    [b]NBM, I guess I can understand your pet peeve. . . I have no problem with the people who dislike it, my grievance is with those who look down on the rst who do it.[/b]


    Okay, I hope I didn't misunderstand you. However, I took your comments herein above to refer to defending the practice of **street** racing. If the "it" to which you referred above (from this post from a couple days ago) refers to sanctioned legal drag racing, I apologize. SCCAForums Image

    Bob
    Dave Schotz
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    11 Jan 2001 08:55 AM
    Hey... Sorry Guys... I better Repent! Because if someone rolls up next to me, and wants to run em... I am runnin em!

    So many people criticize street racers, Drag Racers, Auto Crossers, Road Racers. All have their strengths & weaknesses!

    In my opinion, anyone who looks down on an individual for the sport, or hobby they choose, yet races in 'their favorite' is a hypocrite! How long did Auto-xers go getting flack from Road Racers? (If not still to this day!)

    Drag racing is a ton of fun... and while you may think 12 & 13 second cars are average, drag racers respect many different things than auto-xers... In autox, one is respected by being smooth, and fast. In Drag Racing, respect comes from powershifting, launching and obtaining that 1.7, or 1.6 60' how good your reaction time is... etc..

    Why do you really think STS, and STR are here? Look at the participation... it was to get the kids who were out Drag Racing those cars, and get them to get interested in Auto-X!

    I guess my opinion is if you don't respect the sport... don't do it... but to look down on an individual who does something that just doesn't pertain to you is silly!

    QWKBLK... Don't give up bud... Try an Auto-X... you may really enjoy it... and for those of you that don't like Drags... go take your car there, and give it a shot... you may be surprised!
    See you at all Tracks! RR, AX, DR!
    Dave

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    NBM LS1 M6
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    11 Jan 2001 08:58 AM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by QWKBLKGT:
    [b]OK guys, I think you maybe misunderstood where I was coming from. . . . OK and with that I am going to try and pull my name off of here since I am not worthy, and stick to my Mustang sites. [/b]


    QWKBLKGT-- I did't want to sound overbearing in my comments. I would hope that you would continue to participate in this forum and engage in dialogue about any comments that you might make. SCCAForums Image

    One of the issues to consider. . . The Solo2 autox community is composed of owners of many different kinds of cars. Unfortunately, the general public has a perception of the personality/mentality of automobile owners that corresponds to the **type** of car they own. All of us must needs accept the fact that these perceptions exist. Those of us who drive certain kinds of cars that the general public might look down upon need to understand that we have a responsibility corresponding to our view in the public eye.

    There is a State Farm insurance advertisement currently being aired that demonstrates the unfortunate reality of the public perception of high performance cars in the hands of young drivers. It pictures the shadowy image a Ford Mustang and a Firebird Trans Am, and the narrator playing the part of an insurance agent pleads with parents not to buy these kind of cars for their sons or daughters.

    One of the exciting aspects of Solo2 competition is the fact of just how much fun one can have driving the same kind of car that Mom and Dad might feel perfectly comfortable to buy for their 16 year old daughter. I have given more than one thought to trading both of my Z28s for a Ford Focus or a nice used Dodge Neon ACR.

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    Bob Hempy
    SoPac CSCC GRA
    SM #27
    NBM 1998 Z28 M6
    PGM 1995 Z28 A4

    [This message has been edited by NBM LS1 M6 (edited January 11, 2001).]
    NBM LS1 M6
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    11 Jan 2001 09:35 AM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Schotz:
    [b]Hey... Sorry Guys... I better Repent! Because if someone rolls up next to me, and wants to run em... I am runnin em!

    So many people criticize street racers, Drag Racers, Auto Crossers, Road Racers. All have their strengths & weaknesses! [/b]


    Well. . . it's just the street racing issue upon which I want to exercise some literary caution in sanctioning. SCCAForums Image

    OTOH, I am willing to bet that, some 90% of the time, if a cop who had nothing better to do were behind me at a stoplight on these wide open suburban Los Angeles arterial streets that have a 45 mph speed limit, he would have probable cause to be nasty enough to ticket me for exhibition of speed. I've never seen any reason to delay getting up to the speed limit from a stoplight. SCCAForums Image

    Don't get me wrong. I drive my cars aggressively every day. I usually try to stay within reason, but I'm practicing slaloms on every freeway ramp and constantly testing out whether the car is pushing or whether it is loose.

    Okay. . . confession time. The last speeding ticket I received was for doing 44 in a 30 on a street in St. Louis Park, MN while "showing off" to a friend. I am thankful that "copette" (female officer) didn't nail me for "exhibition of speed" vis a vis the fact that I chirped the tires on the WOT 1-2 A4 shift. She could have done so. SCCAForums Image

    I don't mind running my car through the gears head to head with someone else, if the passions are kept within reason, and it's the right desolate enough place at the right time, but I wouldn't want to get ticketed for a criminal misdemenor such as "speed contest," and I would definitely not want to be implicated as an accessory to vehicular manslaughter. The problem with engaging in a street race is the fact that regardless of whether one keeps his **own** car under control and his **own** passions in check, if the other guy does not, one can become an accessory to a felony. It just cost me $6K for the last three years for two **minor** out of state speeding tickets appearing on my record despite the fact that I am accident free for the past 25 years. That hurt!! SCCAForums Image

    Bob

    [This message has been edited by NBM LS1 M6 (edited January 11, 2001).]
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