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Last Post 08 May 2002 06:42 PM by  Mark Hirt
Atwater Tour - Index Results
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Mark Hirt
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06 May 2002 03:13 PM
    [url="http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/tour2002_atwater.html"]Click Here[/URL] for the Indexed Atwater Tour Results.

    Mark Hirt
    Mark Hirt
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    07 May 2002 05:33 AM
    Oops! The results above have been corrected to actually show the #1 driver

    O dopey me.
    Mark Hirt
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    07 May 2002 09:52 AM
    I'll revise them when the "official" results are changed.
    Mark Hirt
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    07 May 2002 11:32 AM
    Would you like me to personally call every competitor at [b]every[/b] National Tour just to make sure their car was not miss-classed too?

    There is NO BUMPING at National Tours so running a car in the correct class is possible. If one "chooses" to run in another class do they really care how they finish on the "for informational purposes only" index?

    Mark Hirt


    [This message has been edited by nxracer (edited May 07, 2002).]
    Dave Schotz
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    07 May 2002 11:35 AM
    You have to admit Jeff... people cannot 'know' everyones 'true' class... they have to go by the classes people register in.

    Not by classes they choose or choose not to compete in.

    The fact is... a BP car won EM fine... But... the 'EM' index should still be based off of the winning car in E-Mod.

    The Pax doesn't change to help or hurt BP... it is reflecting the classes people run in.

    If I ran ESP with my F-Stock car... the only Pax factor getting misguided is myself! (Or the only feelings getting hurt)... Fact is... Steve ran EM... and we are Paxing the info based on classes run... I think this info is far more accurate than Bragging rights. SCCAForums Image

    Steve doesn't get paid based on the Pax posistion! I would think a more accurate refelection would be the way NXRacer did the pax results... with a notation maybe (if one were to know... like you and I do)... saying that Steve Oblenis, and Jeff Winchell actually were running BP cars in EM, and ESP cars in SM... but Pax results must reflect the class competition actually ran in.

    My personal opinion.

    Peace,

    Dave

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    Weapon: True Blue 2001 Cobra
    Class: FS
    Car No#: 39

    [This message has been edited by Dave Schotz (edited May 07, 2002).]
    rtp.rick
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    07 May 2002 11:55 AM
    Thanks, Dave.

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    RTP
    Mark Hirt
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    07 May 2002 01:34 PM
    In the quest for competition the BP to EM and FP to SM2 moves took trophy's away from other competitors. I hope those effected are ok with the outcome.

    Mark Hirt
    Mark Hirt
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    07 May 2002 08:34 PM
    The finishing position of a couple mis-classesd cars will not effect the 2003 PAX/RTP numbers.

    Mark Hirt
    Dave Schotz
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    08 May 2002 09:25 AM
    Sorry Jeff... I have to disagree...

    First off if an A-Stock Car wins BSP... why is that PAX factor inaccurate? The BSP people should have been able to beat an AS car... Just as when an SS car beats an ASP Car heads up... it happens... and if they are in the ASP Class... that is how they are PAXED!

    Of course... they know they were running a stock car in an SP Class... but they chose to do so for whatever the reason... Just as your example... with having 3 drivers... I know why you did it... but get over the Pax deal... it would be INACCURATE to Pax you based on the 'cars' class...vs. the class you ran in! Sorry... that is why the Pax tool is there... it doesn't care WHO drove the cars... it doesn't even care what CARS were driven... it just cares about who had the quickest (or slowest) times in the classes they were registered in. Which also means their car was legal to run in that class! If an ESP car was running in FS... than the Pax factor would be wrong! SCCAForums Image

    Should I complain that there should be a Pax multiplication for Temperature, and what time a class runs? NO... I could care less where I pax... It is nice to know that you 'PAX' well... but there are just too many variables that can help or hurt that. Fact is... most worry about winning their respective classes... not how they PAX! SCCAForums Image

    Another point is... BP was to be the 2nd Run Group! EM was the LAST run group! How do you think that effected the Pax times? SCCAForums Image


    PS: Jeff... you stated you provided them with the necessary information for ALL Cars running out of Class? Or did you just provide them with the couple you knew about? That is FAR from providing them info on EVERY Car there (270) and their Classes! I am sure there were more ran in other classes... that just chose to do so! SCCAForums Image
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    Weapon: True Blue 2001 Cobra
    Class: FS
    Car No#: 39

    [This message has been edited by Dave Schotz (edited May 08, 2002).]
    Dave Schotz
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    08 May 2002 10:56 AM
    Well... you can look at how you like... Every region has a Pax class... and in every region they run together! ;-)

    So... again... this has nothing to do with 'Paxing' one event.

    Also... the fact is... you are nitpicking... 2 or 3 drivers running OUT of CLASS... and trying to make a stink... no matter how you look at it... that is the fact...

    If Steve ran BP... and Greg didn't run your car... would we be having this discussion? NO!

    Fact is... did you give a rats a$$ about the other 200+ entrants... (that didn't trophy)... to find out if they maybe should have been classed differently? NO!

    Please... get off your high horse... about my region this... and we have more trophy winners that... BIG DEAL!!

    No matter what class anyone runs in... I can promise you on some days they love the Pax factor... and on others... they hate it! (I know I have) SCCAForums Image

    I can tell you this weekends event was the first event that I was truly able to see the difference running 1st vs. running last!

    As to Joe's comments... he still ran a group after we did which I think still really helped... because by then enough people attempted to go tighter.

    And actually I did the same thing... as tight as I 'could' go... with leaving 2 (the outside two) tires in the clean stuff.

    Peace!

    Dave



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    Weapon: True Blue 2001 Cobra
    Class: FS
    Car No#: 39
    Mark Hirt
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    08 May 2002 11:23 AM
    Personally I think Mod and Prepared drivers will appreciate the PAX/RTP factors this year. In the past the PAX favored Stock and Street prepared cars while the RTP attempted to even the entire class structure.

    In 2002 you should see....
    more Mod and Prepared cars towards the top.
    less DS (2001 GS) cars up top

    For some reason the PAX always favored DS (2001 GS)

    Remember no course is perfect for every car and course conditions change as the day goes on. Not always for the better.
    Dave Schotz
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    08 May 2002 02:36 PM
    Jeff Quoted...

    Originally posted by Dave Schotz:
    Well... you can look at how you like... Every region has a Pax class...
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    Not even close. Nor does the SCCA's biggest region, SFR.
    quote:
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    and in every region they run together! ;-)

    Ok... so I should have said... Almost every region has a Pax Class...

    And for those that do have Pax Classes... I should have said that they 'Should' run together.

    Now... I believe that the reason NWR doesn't run Stock, and SP PAX groups together... is because they break the day up by Morning / Afternoon heats... based on Classes.

    See ya,

    Dave

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    Weapon: True Blue 2001 Cobra
    Class: FS
    Car No#: 39
    rtp.rick
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    08 May 2002 04:35 PM
    Again, thanks Dave. In some regard for Jeff's notions, I should mention that I spend in excess of 300 hours developing the PAX/RTP Index each year. I currently (beginning of May) have over 70 events for this year logged for information purposes. I suppose that's why I get annoyed when the Index it is misused.

    Oh, BTW, I do understand Jeff's reasoning. I'm just baffled by his name-calling and personal attacks.

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    RTP
    Mark Hirt
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    08 May 2002 06:42 PM
    Me thinks someone was busy with the delete command again, unless of course it was all a bad dream.....
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