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Last Post 22 Jun 2004 06:47 AM by  Steve
Toledo Tour - Index results
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Mark Hirt
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21 Jun 2004 08:16 AM
    [url="http://www.scca-chicago.com/solo/indexes/results/2004_tour_toledo.pdf"]Click Here[/URL]
    john brown
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    21 Jun 2004 08:56 AM
    Thanks...I have been trying to figure this out.You saved me a lot of time.
    Was Bowland flying or what???
    gary p
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    21 Jun 2004 09:28 AM
    Lot of FP near the top.
    JSirota
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    21 Jun 2004 10:03 AM
    Lots of slick-tired classes near the top! Was this on concrete?
    Eric1855
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    21 Jun 2004 10:06 AM
    wow...now that exemplifies what I've been arguing to my CS and BS buddies forever, that SM gets royally screwed in the PAX :-D
    SpyderVenom
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    21 Jun 2004 10:20 AM
    Concrete. With a lot of explanation:

    The concrete is new and is actually very slick and dusty. I would put it much closer to asphalt than what you see at Topeka. A STS friend of mine had concrete dust coming out of the tread and on the sidewall of his tires after his runs. SM ran in the first heat which was cold and ended up cleaning the course for later heats. As an example, SS ran faster later in the day than ASP on Saturday. When the course was turned around on Sunday the differences in times across the day were more in line with what you'd expect to see - ASP beating SS.

    The Prepared classes ran later in the day when it was warmer and the course line had been cleaned.
    Dick Rasmussen
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    21 Jun 2004 11:53 AM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric1855:
    wow...now that exemplifies what I've been arguing to my CS and BS buddies forever, that SM gets royally screwed in the PAX :-D
    Maybe but when actual times for FS are faster you can't claim PAX is "the problem". :)

    Dick
    DG
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    21 Jun 2004 12:07 PM
    The cold and dirt hurt the first heat cars pretty badly. I was recording a tenth of a G difference in max grip run to run.

    By the second heat, the surface had recovered to its usual infinite grip.

    DG
    Eric1855
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    21 Jun 2004 01:01 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by DickR:
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric1855:
    wow...now that exemplifies what I've been arguing to my CS and BS buddies forever, that SM gets royally screwed in the PAX :-D
    Maybe but when actual times for FS are faster you can't claim PAX is "the problem". :)

    Dick shhh...i need all I can get to explain why i keep getting beat by cars with 1/2 or 1/3 the power :(
    01 FS Z28
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    21 Jun 2004 01:24 PM
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by DG:
    The cold and dirt hurt the first heat cars pretty badly. I was recording a tenth of a G difference in max grip run to run.

    By the second heat, the surface had recovered to its usual infinite grip.

    DG
    Uh, not quite. Yes, I had a lot of pity for those you in the 1st heat on Saturday, as it was a mess. Might be able to tell more if you only PAX Sunday results. For instance Danny Popp ran 1st heat and ran a much more realistic time vs. say myself on Sunday vs. Saturday as the majority of the line was cleaned off after Saturday runs.

    But, the far end of the course was slick period, at least for me. And cars that ran later heats than I did got smoked on index, so the dirt isn't the whole answer.
    DG
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    21 Jun 2004 01:32 PM
    [QUOTE]shhh...i need all I can get to explain why i keep getting beat by cars with 1/2 or 1/3 the power
    As a quick aside....

    Imagine we has a course consisting of a drag race start, some distance of straight running, and then a 10 cone slalom.

    We have two cars, each of which produce similar slalom performance, but one of which produces tons of acceleration, and the other just reaches its maximum slalom speed as it enters the slalom.

    The driver of the first car is theoretically capable of running a faster time than the second car, because even though both cars will spend exactly the same amount of time in the slalom section, the first car will cover the straight section much faster.

    In practice though, the driver of the second car has less work to do, as he just stands on the gas and steers through the slalom. The first car must choose a braking point, and brake at exactly the right rate to avoid lockup while at the same time ensuring that he enters the slalom at the proper speed. He has more to do, more opportunities for mistakes, and (arguably) the mistakes can be more punishing.

    For many courses, the time gained by the higher acceleration will offset (or more than offset) any time lost in getting into the next element less than perfectly. But occasionally, there will be courses where that is not the case; where a given driver might be better off with less power.

    DG
    john brown
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    21 Jun 2004 01:53 PM
    This was my second trip to this venue,last weeks pro-solo being my first,but I have been told how slippery this surface is...but I have to say that I dont think my car could have stuck any harder than it did sat. or sun.
    I also could not tell which way the concrete brushed lines were going because it just felt planted all the way around.
    I think the fast back straight was the tale-tale difference.If you held back there...you lost.period.
    IMHO
    john brown
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    Jason Saini
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    21 Jun 2004 04:42 PM
    I think it's a function of lighter cars doing well, now that I think about it. (this still doesn't explain ESP's blistering pace,) but I think that the 'newness' of the concrete means that little bits are broken off as the tire slides across it, causing the slippage.

    The heavier the car, the more bits break off, the more slippage. In conjunction, it seems that the bias ply tires (slicks) do a much better job than our radials of coping with the new concrete. So naturally, lighter cars on slicks would do really well.

    Further evidence that the PAX, while interesting, can never really be a true correction factor unless we get a supercomputer to model a new PAX for every course and every surface and every weather change. I don't see that happening anytime soon.

    I still wish I'd done better, though! :p
    Steve
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    22 Jun 2004 06:47 AM
    This course was very much a speed maintenance course in my opinion. The guys that did well drove very sweeping lines and stayed on the gas. In earlier heats on Saturday it was slightly dusty and cool, and early Sunday it was cool as well. Heats 3-5 both days probably had an advantage from higher track temps.
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