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Last Post 22 Mar 2001 02:30 PM by  davegt27
So why are we Living @ 16" tire limit?
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Scotty B
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01 Feb 2001 09:39 PM
    So I guess I am wondering why we are still living in the past with the 16" diameter limit in prepared?

    I am stumped here...

    I thought the new AP was supposed to be a haven for the fastest cars and the Porsches are allowed in with 18" rubber why not everyone else?

    sbw
    floridaracer
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    03 Feb 2001 11:48 AM
    i think one reason may be cost and availability.. i see a lot of companies dont make slicks for anything larger than 16" (especially for tread from 10-14" wide)

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    Mike - 80 Z/28
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    [url="http://www.floridaracer.com"]www.floridaracer.com[/URL]
    Scotty B
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    03 Feb 2001 12:40 PM
    So why not let the ones that want to use them do so? I'm not gonna make you buy wheels... Just open it up to whatever dimension you want?


    sbw
    David Ferguson
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    11 Feb 2001 08:43 PM
    I think you can get the ball rolling with a well thought-out letter to the comp board. Use specific examples of tires sizes/compounds that you want to run, but are only available in the larger sizes. Follow that up with a plea to the internet sites asking for interested parties to send letters of support.

    Oh yeah, don't forget to mention that you thought the bigger brakes that fit in the large wheels might help as well :-)
    Dave Schotz
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    12 Feb 2001 05:59 AM
    Of course, be sure to document those bigger brakes, as purely a safety concern! SCCAForums Image

    Go get em! All sizes should be allowed in Prepared! Maybe a weight penalty for various sizes... but when SP gets to run any size... doesn't make much sense to not let Prepared.
    Peace,

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    Weapon: White 2001 Z-06
    Class: SS
    Car No#: 39
    mikeo
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    14 Mar 2001 06:13 AM
    I too didn't understand the 16" rule when I enquired on some of the SCCA rules. My car is over 3200 lbs (74 Corvette) and I'm limited to a 16" wheel while a Neon can run 16" with a much lower profile tire on a much lighter car.

    Since my car will be driven on the street much more than the ocassional autocross, I opted to go with the 17" wheels and DOT street tires. If the rule ever changes, then I will consider joining SCCA. This is only for fun for me & my car.

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    davegt27
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    14 Mar 2001 10:20 PM
    the main reason the big rims where not allowed was cost but the cry babies started off in street prepared so they got any size rim they wanted now it seems the cry babbies are moving to Prepared and they just have to have the rules changed to suit them.

    my suggestion is if you are racing for fun do what we did years ago and move to E-Modified you can do anything you want in that class

    davegt27

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    davegt27
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    mikeo
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    15 Mar 2001 03:13 AM
    DaveGT27 I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post, but I don't understand how I am a cry baby, please help me understand. I didn't open this topic. If any association is going to continuously improve over time, it has to be open to peoples views and comments. This does not mean they should go out and try to make everyone happy because that will never happen. It does mean that they should view peoples ideas as opportunites, if not now, than maybe for the future. "If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got."

    I have a car with a suspension that was designed in 1963. Not only have engineers learned gobs more about the geometry of suspensions over time, but tire technology has vastly improved along with it. So while many people are driving cars with todays sophisticated suspension designs, my car is riding on 38 year old technology. Have you looked at performance street tires in a 15" lately? Yeah you can "upgrade" to a performance 15" tire if your going from a 13" wheel. Somehow I don't see the benefit of going from a 27" diameter tire to a 21" tire as being an upgrade for my car. And for speed ratings in a 27" tire, forget it. Within a year, you will see tire manufactures moving away from 16" performance tires and more towards 17+" performance tires that are in a diameter that my car can utilize. Does this mean that for now I should by 16" wheels only to have to go out and buy 17" wheels a couple of years later to stay with what the tire manufactures are offering?

    It's obvious I don't have the resources as you do if you can do this. Explain to me what advantages I have with 17"x8" wheels (15x8 are stock) with street tires over someone with 16x12 (is that the size allowed?) wheels with slicks mounted on them. Also if you could, help me DaveGT27 understand how my 8" street tire is SO much better than a 12" wide slick. It seems I have much to learn from you. So please help me see how it is that I'm a "crybaby". You should not take offence to peoples comments, I learn by asking questions, getting involve with things, and visiting sites on the internet like this one. Don't push people away, they may even have something to offer to you oneday.

    Yes like I said, I'm in it for the FUN OF IT, so put me into any class you want to make me as noncompetitive as possible, because if this is what it takes for me to have fun, so be it.

    [This message has been edited by mikeo (edited March 16, 2001).]
    davegt27
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    17 Mar 2001 10:50 PM
    WOW! the shoe is on the other foot. N
    ow i am the old fart that wont change his ways I am in the Air Nat Gaurd and i tell these old guys "hey you got to retire sooner or later"
    they absolutly refuse to change or make any improvements. thanks for the Knock on the Head "macfly"

    OK shool time or secrets of speed.
    wt and wt transfer. you said
    Somehow I don't see the benefit of going from a 27" diameter tire to a 21" tire as being an upgrade for my car.
    you did not say what kind of car you have so lets look at my Opel GT.
    i started this study after i got my ass kicked buy a very fast EP Honda (but thats a another story)
    My study was the diff from 20" tall tire or a 22" tall tire. what i came up with was if you lower the cars CG 2" its the same (on my car) as lowering the wt of the car by 200 lbs or increasing the track by 6" yep thats right 200" so lesson 1) is get the car as low as possible.
    you also said something about running sreet tires in a slick tire class. that is a wast of time and you might as well run E-Mod but then again a friend of mine ran r-1's in his 5 series BMW and i was on used slicks (not so rich)
    the cost of used slicks are $55 a tire pretty cheap new 9.5X20 X 13 slicks cost $156 a tire. the cheapest 17" DOT race tire cost $200 a tire. [url="http://www.rsracing.com/rscatalog/asppages/rt-dotscr.asp"]http://www.rsracing.com/rscatalog/asppages/rt-dotscr.asp[/URL]
    I know its your money and you should be able to run any tire and wheel combo you want. Hell i argued for the car wt to be with the driver at the solo II nats. but no change.I said you will end up with a one car class. The 1600 lbs Hondas are still winning (my 60's tech Opel has to weigh 1990 lbs)
    Putting 17 inch wheels is kind of a sucker punch or on other words a waste of money.
    if people really wanted to equlize things in classes the would opt for a uniform wt transfer rule based on 1.0 g cornering speed then you could compensate for rim and tire size.
    ok more schooling what you want is a car that once you transfer all your wt in a corner you still have traction available the next thing you want is cross flow 4 valve per cyl head next a wide track, wider then the other cars in your class, next alot of support in the after market next a great driver next the lowest Mass to accelerate (lt wt flywheel, and rims and tires, not 17's unless they are real big buck ones).
    now you got your self a winning car also called a Honda.
    there are improvements to be made but you have to judge what is a real improvement i am sure the rule change will pass so dont even worry about what a littl tsgt has to say just seems kind of funny to me they never want to make any real changes to make all cars competitive. the EP RX2 that goes to the Nats every year has to weigh 2030lbs running aginst 1600 lb hondas that have a wider track. what a joke oh but they are such great drivers.

    later
    davegt27
    mikeo
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    18 Mar 2001 07:58 AM
    Dave, thanks for the info. I agree with everything your saying. My car is pictured above (red vette).

    It IS a big disadvantage when two cars race where the power levels are both close but one car weighs half of the other. I was on vacation last year in Puerto Rico and went to some drag races while there. They won't even run V8's (Camaros, Chevelles, Mustangs, etc.) against the imports. Why, because these imports are kicking the V8's butt's. I know we're not talking about drag racing here, but if you take that same import,(like you said: ) lower it, put some low profile slicks on it, that car is going to be VERY competitive.

    I'm not crying here, but like I said previously, I have a heavy car with old technology that requires some new technology in the wheel/ tire dept. to help make it more competitive with cars of today. My car didn't come with a backseat so that limits what class I will be in before I even touch it. I think everyone knows that the older C3 corvettes (70's) were down on power from the factory. Throw in 15" wheels compared to todays 17"&18" wheels and the scales are really starting to be onesided here.

    I know rules are rules, and I respect that very much. But my car is a street driven car. With the rollbar in my car, I have no where to put 4 wheels with slicks on them to change at the course. I also don't have the funds to purchase a truck & trailer to tow my car car to a race. So that leaves me with having street tires that I can use to drive to and from the race.

    People are using things like this forum to question and maybe bring certain things to light. I'm not saying that SCCA should change the rules for just one person, that would be total choas. It's up to them to review the different classes to which cars should be placed so everyone can have a chance at being competitive. You can never please everyone, that's just not possible, but you can hear what people have to offer and take it for whatever it's worth. SCCA does a fine job as evident of the success of their organization. Over time change is inevitable as with all things, even rules.

    Cheers!
    Mike

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    davegt27
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    22 Mar 2001 02:30 PM
    your in the same boat a lot of us where in
    i had a street legal car in E-Mod
    but hey we are out to have fun so why do you care what class you are in

    also i am able to get 4 tires in a opel gt
    and in a MR2

    Have fun
    davegt27
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