Say what????  Did someone beat Braun that I didn't hear about????

 Even with options available a la carte, the problem is that many of them involve either parts that are not available at a dealership or part of the option requires updates to one of the many computers in the car which are also unobtainable. Sure, one could might find junkyard parts but...good luck on that.

 I'll add to that thought with Cayman classing...

SS - Cayman R (all)

AS - 2009 thru 2012 Cayman S

BS - 2006 thru 2008 Cayman S, 2009 thru 2012 Cayman

CS - 2006 thru 2008 Cayman

I recently passed on the purchase of a new 2012 Cayman S with sports crono, PASM, sports exhaust, LSD, factory short shifter partially because of Solo classing. Although very well optioned, I felt that car would have had a distinct disadvantage in SS. There were other factors on that decision not to purchase (price being a HUGE part) but that car would have done well in AS without being having an inordinate advantage over the C5 Corvettes.

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TRSCCA Regional Executive 2012
Porsche addict and tire junkie

 My 986 Boxster didn't come with the M030 suspension from the factory and I needed it to be competitive in CS. All I had to do was order the factory Porsche Euro M030 kit from Suncoast Porsche and I got new struts, springs and hollow sway bars for a grand total of $900.00. I couldn't use the springs in Stock class but the rest of it was an easy bolt on and super cheap. Some Porsche parts are rediculously priced (air cooled engine parts) but the 986/996 and later stuff is really reasonable either new or from one of the Porsche dismantlers.

Track performance is not always a good indication of autocross performance- GT-R is a prime example of that. On top of that, you can't take snapshots from Laguna Seca without comparing track conditions, driver skill, etc. If you look at Nurburgring times (fairly well documented on wikipedia), the fastest Boxster S is a full 30 seconds off the faster GT-3 non-RS, and even further from the RS, and there's a good chance it was track-prepped. Most Boxster/Caymans fell more in-line with the S2000 and C5 Corvette.

I'm going to snapshot one Boxster right now. Which class does it look like it would best fall in amongst the other class-topping Porsches here?

CANDIDATE A: 2978 lbs, 310hp/266ft-lbs

SCCA SS: 3131 lbs, 408hp/310ft-lbs (2011 997S)
SCCA AS: 2910 lbs, 300hp/258ft-lbs (2001 996)
SCCA BS: 2911 lbs, 258hp/229ft-lbs (2004 986S)


Candidate A happens to be a 2011 Boxster S, presently classed in SS, despite having virtually identical power:weight with an AS 996. For SEB to justify classing it in SS, there would have to be rationale that the 987.2 to be too fast for AS due to other factors. I'm pretty sure it's not the tires, as 987.2 is running the same width wheels as was optional for the BS 986S in 2004 (7.5x18/9x18) and is a little heavier than the 986S to boot.  PDK has not proven to be the advantage it was expected to be when these cars were first classed, nor has mechanical LSD shown itself to have a measurable advantage over the electronic LSD offered in earlier Boxsters. I'm trying to find a link with skidpad data someone linked me to a few months ago, but as I recall, the Boxster/S did not do as well as the 911 (and especially GT3) despite the weight distribution, due largely to items we cannot change in stock class. The sole advantage the 997.2S Boxster has over the 996 it has is lower polar moment of inertia.

Additionally, I think the fact that nobody has fully developed a 987/987S for SCCA stock class really shows that the community at large feels they're not classed properly, and anyone willing to take the time/money to max it out has gone to other platforms or taken it to street prepared, etc.

In summation, I still feel pretty strongly 987s should all be AS/BS vice SS/AS.  With SS one of the largest classes at nats and so many S2000s leaving for STR, I think it makes a lot of sense balance-wise, too, even if the 987 is deemed to be on the seam between these classes.

 

 

Wall of numbers:

Nurburgring Nordschleife lap times:

7:24.22 Nissan GT-R
7:29.03 Nissan GT-R (Stock GT-R on stock tires)
7:33 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 997MkII
7:38 Nissan GT-R (On Dunlop SP Sport 600 run-flats)
7:42 Porsche 911 GT3 (2006)
7:42.99 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (2005)
7:56 Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06
7:59 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z51
7:59 Porsche 911 Carrera S
7:59 Dodge Viper SRT-10
8:10 Porsche Boxster S
8:12 BMW Z4 M Coupe
8:13 BMW M5 E60
8:16 Porsche Cayman S
8:17 Porsche Boxster S
8:25 Porsche Cayman S
8:28 Porsche 911 Carrera (993)
8:32 Porsche Boxster S
8:39 Honda S2000
8:40 Chevrolet Corvette C5

SCCA SS, 2012:
2010-11 Porsche GT3: 3075 lbs, 435hp/317ft-lbs
2011 Carerra GTS: 3131 lbs, 408hp/310ft-lbs
2009-11 Carrera S: 3131 lbs, 408hp/310ft-lbs
2009-11 Boxster S: 2978 lbs, 310hp/266ft-lbs
2009-11 Cayman S: 2976lbs, 320hp/273ft-lbs
2009-11 Boxster Spyder: 2811 lbs, 320hp/273ft-lbs

SCCA AS, 2012:
2003-04 Carrera: 2959 lbs, 315hp/273ft-lbs
2001-02 Carrera: 2910 lbs, 300hp/258ft-lbs
2009-11 Boxster: 2942 lbs, 255hp/214ft-lbs
2009-11 Cayman: 2932lbs, 265hp/221ft-lbs
2007-08 Boxster S: 2987 lbs, 295hp/251ft-lbs
2005-06 Boxster S: 2965 lbs, 280hp/236 ft-lbs
2007-08 Cayman S: 2976 lbs, 295hp/251ft-lbs
2008 Boxster RS60: 2987 lbs, 303hp/251ft-lbs

SCCA BS, 2012:
2007-08 Boxster: 2887 lbs, 245hp/201ft-lbs
2007-08 Cayman: 2866 lbs, 245hp/201ft-lbs
2005-06 Boxster: 2855 lbs, 240hp/199ft-lbs
2003-04 Boxster S: 2911 lbs, 258hp/229ft-lbs

SCCA CS, 2012:
2003-04 Boxster: 2811 lbs, 228hp/192ft-lbs

Comparing track performance where HP/weight ratios are much more critical that tire/weight ratios are critical in autocross. Furthermore, a car which can be exceptionally effective in stock form on the track due to less of a need for negative camber whereas the car may complete understeer like a pig on an autocross course.

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Clark Walker #274 STR Bloomington, IL

 Good point. BS National champ over AS National champ by 1.448. Perhaps it is best to leave well enough alone...

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TRSCCA Regional Executive 2012
Porsche addict and tire junkie

Nobody has been advocating moving the Spyder or Cayman R from SS, only the 2009-11 CaymanS/BoxsterS, which are virtually identical to the 2007-2008 CaymanS/BoxsterS which are already in AS. Likewise with the base models from AS-BS. The only difference between 2008-2009 is the addition of a mechanical LSD and PDK, neither of which appear to have much of a difference in autocross, due likely to 986 & 987 already having an excellent electronic LSD (not to mention front sway & rear weight distribution minimizing wheelspin to begin with), and PDK being heavier than manual.  Dropping them to SS isn't going to kill the class, but drop two new competitive cars into the mix and very likely help participation.  Besides that, properly classing cars is the "right" thing to do for fair competition at all levels. 

AS/SS is probably the right place to class 981, at least until we see more performance data from it. I think it was the right place to have put the 987 when it came out, but time has shown the 987 isn't as fast in autocross as we all expected it to be, and they need to be adjusted back.