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Joined: 5/27/2003
Posts: 5986
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mball wrote:
Sorry if this has been addressed in the first 45 pages of this post but, is there a list of all cars that are eligible for STF?
Would a 1990 VW Golf be eligible?
2012 Rulebook is online...Appendix A has class listings.
90 Golf is not specifically classed, so it falls under the NOC catch-all into STC. If you want consideration for specific classing so as to be eligible for national events, write to the SEB via the email form (SCCA web site). I suspect it will still go to STC, not STF, based on that car's specs and age.
--Andy
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Joined: 10/19/2001
Posts: 1042
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Andy Hollis wrote:
tkm wrote:
The problem with the 01-05 Civic, EP3 and RSX is that the front uses struts and on the strut itself (up top), the steering rod (tie rod) connects to it (to a protruding arm on the strut itself--google it for a visual). Most/all aftermarket coilovers move this arm to combat the angle that the rod sits at when lowered (it gets really wonky [V-shape] when lowered and you even run out of thread to do alignments).
Curious...as to the "wonky V-shape"...how is this different from more traditional strut setups where the same arm is instead part of the knuckle itself rather than the strut that fits into it? Assuming OE dimensions, the relative position of the arm's end (where the tie-rod mounts) is the same in either design relative the strut mounting flange. Which would make said "wonkiness" a function of being a strut design, not of having the arm directly mounted to the strut. Or maybe I'm missing something?
--Andy
It's much easier seen in a pic than described, but here it goes:
Notice the RSX strut below and where the tie rod connects. It is on top, not on the bottom like 99% of the strut setups. I believe GM tried this setup back in the early 80's.
http://www.ivtecdaily.com/rsx/mods/im...
When you lower the car in the front (and add much needed camber), the tierod will longer be "flat" and it begins to angle up as a result of this arm attachment. Since the tierod is a fixed length and there is only so much adjustment for the tierod end, you quickly run out room to properly align the car...not to mention the horrible bump-steer that develops.
To combat this, this strut attachment arm is moved on pretty much all aftermarket coilovers. With one or two high $$ coilovers, this arm is even height-adjustable (although you can really never get back to the original geometry/location).
Basically, if an RSX/EP3 were to win, it would be protest bait if it weren't running a Koni insert.
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Joined: 2/22/2010
Posts: 131
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The DC Pro online registration opened yesterday. As of this posting, there are 209 entries. One in STF (an '06 Cooper).
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Joined: 1/12/2004
Posts: 1808
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So where are all these STF cars that were so numerous that they deserved a new class? first three national events show a miserable turnout.
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Joined: 12/27/2000
Posts: 160
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John V wrote:So where are all these STF cars that were so numerous that they deserved a new class? first three national events show a miserable turnout.
We're just all waiting to see what Andy does............. ;-)
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Joined: 5/27/2003
Posts: 5986
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Paxman wrote:
John V wrote:So where are all these STF cars that were so numerous that they deserved a new class? first three national events show a miserable turnout.
We're just all waiting to see what Andy does............. ;-)
Andy is waiting on parts :(
John, give it a rest or start your own thread to discuss the politics of this. You keep jumping in here making the same point over and over.
You too, Todd.
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Joined: 10/19/2001
Posts: 1042
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John V wrote:
So where are all these STF cars that were so numerous that they deserved a new class? first three national events show a miserable turnout.
I guess when you structure a class around 2400lb 100hp cars with high cg's, 4-doors and beam axles, it'll take a while for excitement to build. That and one base mini might be enough to keep everyone else away :)
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Joined: 1/12/2004
Posts: 1808
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Andy Hollis wrote:
Paxman wrote:
John V wrote:So where are all these STF cars that were so numerous that they deserved a new class? first three national events show a miserable turnout.
We're just all waiting to see what Andy does............. ;-)
Andy is waiting on parts :(
John, give it a rest or start your own thread to discuss the politics of this. You keep jumping in here making the same point over and over.
You too, Todd.
Sorry Andy, but the internet (much like real life) doesn't work that way.
I realize it's early, but this class smells like another "A Stock" to me - which I recall you being very vocal about when it was created.
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Joined: 2/22/2010
Posts: 131
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Well... I posted because I was expecting more participation. I suppose I had disillusioned visions of HS MINI's jumping ship to play here instead (given the all the whining about the cost of r-comps). I know I would and plan to if I get frustrated with my RWD/STX attempt since in my experience, even a little bit of extra camber seems to do wonders for the MINI with regards to front tire wear. I'm genuinely surprised.
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Joined: 9/19/2009
Posts: 4
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Steep initial conversion costs are a big drawback for STF but then there's the contingency carrot. I'm an HS also-ran nationally in a camber-challenged, A6-eating MINI and am grateful to Andy and others on STAC for the street tire opportunities in 2012. Thanks too to a generous, skilled wrench who made sure I'm in early before the feeding frenzy begins ;-) They will come.
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Joined: 5/27/2003
Posts: 5986
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John V wrote:
Andy Hollis wrote:
Andy is waiting on parts :(
John, give it a rest or start your own thread to discuss the politics of this. You keep jumping in here making the same point over and over.
You too, Todd.
Sorry Andy, but the internet (much like real life) doesn't work that way.
I realize it's early, but this class smells like another "A Stock" to me - which I recall you being very vocal about when it was created.
And you'll notice that for that one I started my own thread to piss all over it. I didn't walk into someone else's party and poop on the floor.
You & Todd M are both better people than that.
--Andy "awaiting the STF Epic Fale thread from John and Todd"
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Joined: 10/2/2003
Posts: 1673
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Andy Hollis wrote:
John V wrote:
Andy Hollis wrote:
Andy is waiting on parts :(
John, give it a rest or start your own thread to discuss the politics of this. You keep jumping in here making the same point over and over.
You too, Todd.
Sorry Andy, but the internet (much like real life) doesn't work that way.
I realize it's early, but this class smells like another "A Stock" to me - which I recall you being very vocal about when it was created.
And you'll notice that for that one I started my own thread to piss all over it. I didn't walk into someone else's party and poop on the floor.
You & Todd M are both better people than that.
--Andy "awaiting the STF Epic Fale thread from John and Todd"
I thought about this when the class was first introduced. My guess is that it will build over time, just not be an overnight success like STR.
Dave G.
Now if we could just get a class for some higher performance cars... Ahem.... Although I'm not quite sure what that class would consist of...
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Joined: 1/12/2004
Posts: 1808
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Don't be so sensitive, Andy.
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Joined: 2/24/2004
Posts: 293
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talon95 wrote: My guess is that it will build over time, just not be an overnight success like STR.
I'm inclined to agree with you on this one. I think a lot of those interested will wait and see how the first year goes for the class.
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Joined: 11/23/2001
Posts: 2545
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I can confirm that a former HS trophy winner in my region has started down the STF build path with his MINI. There's a good chance it will be at Blytheville. Truth be told, however, there was some hesitation after the announcement of "RT." All of a sudden a competitive-minded HS MINI owner who's tired of the R-comp expense has gone from having no competitive alternative class to two.
2009 SCCA RoadRally Sportsman National Tour Champion
2010 SCCA RoadRally Senior National Tour Runner-Up
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