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I was unpleasantly surprised by the February FASTRACK TECH BULLETIN that announced the "Ford Shelby GT350" was classed in FS. 

Before I cancel my freshly placed order for a possibly "obsolete" base model 2007 Mustang GT, I need to inquire if this TECH BULLETIN is even valid because Ford/Shelby DOES NOT currently offer a "Shelby GT350"... only a "Shelby GT" (sans "350") is currently offered... check the Shelby America website.   

Perhaps this flawed TECH BULLETIN is just a cruel shock method to stimulate discussion in the F-Stock community? 

Rick S (NWR):

Before I cancel my freshly placed order for a possibly "obsolete" base model 2007 Mustang GT, I

The joys of Stock

Get the 2007 GT and put a trailer hitch on it. Buy a CM or FM car and tow it with the Mustang. You could probably get a decent C or F Mod car for the difference in price between the GT and the Shelby and would not have to worry about the car becoming obsolete.

That is what I did when my FS 88 5.0 LX wasn't fast enough anymore (at least with me driving it). Put a trailer hitch on it and bought a C Mod FF1600 and a lightweight trailer.  Then you can have the "STEET" version of the Mustang you like. (I current daily drive 97 and 01 GT's but tow with a camper van now).  

Dick  

Dick Rasmussen:

Rick S (NWR):

Before I cancel my freshly placed order for a possibly "obsolete" base model 2007 Mustang GT, I

The joys of Stock

Yup, I've experienced this "joy" before and thanks for the tow car suggestion, but I don't need a brand new "obsolete" Pony Car because I already have an "obsolete" 1995 Camaro Z28 (in FS and ESP) in the garage right now.  

I was planning to return to FS to drive something different and support the class on the "left coast", but unfortunately it seems that FS is continuing its evolution into a class of limited availability high-cost "Factory" Street Prepared cars where base models will be cannon fodder.  I guess I should have learned my lessons earlier in life when I competed in FS with my then new 1991 LX 5.0 and much earlier with my 1967 GT Mustang.

I only hope the 2009 Camaro won't be "obsolete" by the time I place an order for one of those too.     

BTW: My open question about the validity of the February TECH BULLETIN still stands...  a "2007 Shelby GT350" does not currently exist.    

Just modify your mustang gt to shelby specs, which I think is completely legal and A LOT CHEAPER.  You are talking 40k for a Shelby GT.

Get the springs, stb, cold air kit (with electronic gadget), swaybars, 3.73 gears, stripes, hood (maybe just the scoop), Shelby letters, grill, and hoodpins.  Voila, Shelby GT clone. 

Looks like conversion would run three or four thousand dollars.  GT's are getting pretty cheap, so you could get into one around 30k if you do your own work.

 Of course, it will probably be almost immediately bumped by the new Camaro or higher output Boss/Bullitt Mustang.   

It is a bit strange that this was already in Fasttrack given the beginning of this thread.

Fastrack put the Shelby into FS.  The intent and the car is the GT.  It might say GT350, but a big reason for that was for a while nobody knew what the official name was going to be, and they had already build a GT500 so GT350 seems logical, and I was myself calling a GT350 for lack of a more accurate term.  And that Fastrack was likely submitted (knowing how long it takes for them to show up) before the "official" naming of the car. 

 And FWIW, the Shelby does not have 3.73's, but 3.55's.  Basically we are talking about a GT with some strips, different facia's, different springs, possibly a bar change.  Same 18x8.5's you can get on a GT, same engine, but with a cold air intake and a little different mapping.  Different cat-back. 

 You could upgrade your '07 to Shelby specs.  You could run a proven older one (since we don't know how good, if any the new car wiill be).  Remember the last Bullitt?  No damn good despite the hype.  My LS1 Camaro with a good 100 HP more than my '91 wasn't a better FS car, just different.  If the car is a complete and utter overdog, it's covered under the "12-month rule" where the SEB has 12 months to move it. 

Only reason I said 3:73's is that is what is listed on the Ford Racing site, but they might be wrong because I know I have read different elsewhere, but saw the 3:73's right before I posted.  Different springs, different swaybars front and back, different shifter, stb (if it matters any), different tuning and cold air kit.  It should make a real difference in power, at least 10 to 20hp.  The catback and shocks don't really matter because they would be changed anyway.  Has the same camber friendly tech information I would assume.   

I think they are all premium models with the better radio, so that might add a few pounds.  Don't think you could take a stripped base deluxe model and make the mods, could you?

Anyhow, it makes buying a 2007 GT more interesting as opposed to less.

01 FS Z28:

Fastrack put the Shelby into FS.  The intent and the car is the GT.  It might say GT350, .... <snip>

You could upgrade your '07 to Shelby specs.  <snip>

That sucks about the scoop.  In such cases, aren't cloned parts allowed?  The rest would be a problem.  I would guess if they are smart that they will find that there is more money in providing parts (ala saleen) than there is in making the cars alone. 

I refuse to pay 40k for a Shelby GT.

Sam knows his stuff.  Maybe the Shelby GT won't be all it seems to be for autocross anyway. 

Here's a pic of a Shelby GT window sticker.  This should clear up any question as to what this car does or doesn't include.

OK - this whole thing about "properly documenting a car" is a non-issue. Yeah - my WS6 is now in CP. But, as I was taking apart the dash, I cut a wire I shouldn't have. When I consulted my Service Manual, it said that there were supposed to be 3 tan wires coming from the gauge cluster. I had 5. I had the book in my lap saying 3 - and my eyes telling me 5.

 So, does that mean that my car was never properly documented from Day 1? According to some, yup. If I'd have been protested, then because my car wasn't EXACTLY what the factory said it was supposed to be, then I was illegal.

 We've got to take some common sense here. No car is going to come from the factory 100% like any single document says it should. There are just too many individual parts. It's not realistic to expect that something won't get forgotten (like a screw in a panel).

 So, we have to take what's considered a "common sense" approach. My car was built 100% AT THE FACTORY. It left the factory, got on a truck, and hit the car lot. It has whatever GM put on it. If I hadn't touched it, then it would STILL have those things on there. If I know that my car is legal, then I'm willing to take a chance on someone protesting me and then discovering, "Hey, I've got a special part that's not supposed to be here."

 And, as for my competitors, I assume that they are not going to purposefully alter their cars to make them illegal. Yes, I know it happens. But, if I suspected everyone of doing it, then I wouldn't be racing. Besides, these people who have SS and WS6 cars KNOW that they'll be protested when they win. They aren't going to play fast with the rules - that'd be stupid.

 So, what's my point? Let the cars in. I got $10 that says they won't be an overdog. They certainly don't belong in AS. If they dominate FS next year, then kick them out again. But, they won't. Many people forget that the SS and WS-6 are the fat, spoiled children of the F-body crowd. A WS-6 can weigh hundreds more pounds than a factory-stripped Z-28. Ask any F-body owner what they'd buy to go the fastest - not one will say a WS-6 or SS - they'll say a stripped Z-28. Us WS6 /SS guys got them to look good. Period.

 So, let them in. And, if people want to upgrade their cars, let them buy wheels, swaybars, leather seats, t-tops, cruise control, electric windows/doors, TCS, and all the other crap that came with them. Then, watch them go .5 seconds slower than they used to go.

Ok, so now there is but one thing I think you guys need to do.  Write the SEB/SAC and ask just what would need to be updated.  I can't say, but I'm not convinced you'd have to put the entire body package on and all.... In short, where is the line crossed between comfort, paint and body options and performance options?

 Personally, I'd have no issue with running against someone with an '07 GT upgraded wtih the suspension parts, engine calibration, hurst, wheels (and 18x8.5's are a GT option anyway).  I don't think the hood scoop makes you faster, or the lack of the rear spoiler, etc.  That doesn't mean it's ok, but you might ask the question because certainly building a GT up would be less costly than getting a Shelby.   Do I *think* the Shelby should be better than a GT?  I do.  Do I KNOW it for sure?  No.  And I bought my '01 Z28 convinced another 100 HP and Torsen would make a much better FS car than my '91.  It was fine, and fast, but really not better-just different. 

I sell Ford racing parts, and seems all the performance parts installed are available that way......

Yep...

 See on the Shelby sticker the codes FR1 and FR3 (power and handling packages respectively).  Both are available through Ford Racing, with the same parts installed on the car. 

 FR1: 

FR3:

As a stretch, what about converting a 2005 through 2006 Mustang GT to a Shelby GT using the same parts, keeping in mind that the 05's also didn't have the 18 inch wheel option.

As a bigger stretch, how about being allowed to put Bullitt or Mach 1 springs and bars on a 99 - 04 GT without upgrading the brakes (GT brakes are lighter) or without upgrading the transmission for the 99 - early 2001which have the lighter T45. Do the same thing with the 94 -98 body style being able to use Cobra wheels and suspension.

I'm sure the F Body generations have similar potential upgrades to wheels and suspensions within generations.

 My point is:

I would love to have the option of SUSPENSION/WHEEL option package conversions and have it across model years but within generations. I think if F Stock was allowed to do this it would encourage more Pony Car folks to enter Stock. Heck, my early 2001 GT with Bullitt springs and bars might actually be a "GOOD" combo assuming the horsepower to weight differences are not critical in what may be over powered under suspended under tired cars anyway.

Think about how many relatively low bucks cars from the late 80's to the present might be reasonably competitive. Under current rules only a small fraction of those hundreds of thousands of cars are F Stock contenders. Either "some" OLD F Bodies or "some" NEW Mustangs. There may be more late 80's and newer V-8 pony cars still on the road than the sum total of all 2 seat Mazdas, Porsches, Toyotas, BMWs and maybe even Corvettes on the road that fill so many other stock classes.

Dick

I thought update/backdate was only for SP classes...

Also, Costas the WS6 was never offered from the factory (key word) with an Auburn Pro nor was it something you could "add" since the factory built all the cars after '97.  Even in '96 there were no special options that could be added to the car from SLP.  I know this for a fact since I special ordered my '96 WS6.  Now the Firehawk on the other hand could be loaded up with such goodies.  Again as Sam has pointed out over and over again with regards to documentation, don't group the WS6 cars in with the SS cars.  Also, in '01 and '02 I believe more WS6 cars were sold than the plain T/A V8 cars so there are a lot of those cars out there in limbo class-wise.

Please note I am in no way saying that putting those parts on an 05 or 06 would remotely be ok.  If you did it, you'd have to use an '07 since there are no '06 Shelby GT's.  Also, I'm not claiming to know just what the reaction would be if one were to add those parts.  But, it's been done before.  There are '96 Corvettes that are updated to Grand Sport's, but aren't blue, and frankly I hadn't see one with the little fender extensions.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying maybe someone ought to *OFFICIALLY* check into just where the delineation is.

 And while UD/BD is a SP thing, you have always been able to update a car to specs that it could have come with in stock, as long as you do it all.  Folks have build 1LE clones, GS clones....  As far as I'm concerned, PERSONALLY, it only matters to me what's underneath.  The paint, facias and hood scoop (which isn't functional) don't matter a lick to me.  But if someone were to try, they better have all the parts underneath the car correct, and watch their step in regards to the seats (air bag or not).  Taking a non-air bag seat GT and making a Shelby, I don't think so.  Shelby's don't come with out the airbombs from what I can tell, and that would be a weight savings. 

00 Trans Ram:

Many people forget that the SS and WS-6 are the fat, spoiled children of the F-body crowd. A WS-6 can weigh hundreds more pounds than a factory-stripped Z-28. Ask any F-body owner what they'd buy to go the fastest - not one will say a WS-6 or SS - they'll say a stripped Z-28.

That's what I've always assumed.  I kind of figured it would be like letting the SVT Cobras in. 

Unless/Until the SS/WS-6 proves to be an FS overdog, we'll continue to drive our factory delete everything 1LE.

I didn't ready everyone's post in their entirety so please forgive me if this has already been stated... I just have a couple points...

 1.)  That Shelby Window Sticker says 3.55 rear gear? 

2.) Since the 98+ WS6 is the only car not farmed out (when comparing Shelby & SLP)... other than to ASC for the hood & airbox... it has always been a no brainer... you could have ordered any camaro or Firebird with the same options... just no hood, and 16" wheels...

The Shelby & SS Car's make sense for the livelihood of the class... but I believe they shoudl only be offered/allowed has Base Level Suspension & Option pkgs... this protects everyone from a 'documented one-off' car... with an all aluminum 427... or an upgrade supercharger, or 2" lowering springs... or 4:10 gears etc...

Keep the cars classified as base level suspension, and base option pkgs only... and I think this can work and add excitement to the class again.

Dave

FYI in my post above where I suggested UD/BD I was fully aware of the fact that current Stock rules do not allow UD/BD.

However, nothing says that a bunch of F Stockers that care enough could not get a rule change for FS only that allows limited UD/BD.

Alternately since FS cars don't really have a ST class that works, folks that care enough could propose an FS pony car specific ST class with or without R tires (I'm not sure an FS pony car would be worth the trouble without R tires).

Sounds like a fun class to me but I'm not interested enough to pursue it. I'll let the folks who are (IF there are any) pursue it.

Dick

Dick Rasmussen:

Alternately since FS cars don't really have a ST class that works, folks that care enough could propose an FS pony car specific ST class with or without R tires (I'm not sure an FS pony car would be worth the trouble without R tires).

Sounds like a fun class to me but I'm not interested enough to pursue it. I'll let the folks who are (IF there are any) pursue it.

You know a couple o