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Since the door has opened and since we all know SCCA didn't pay rent for the SOLO Natls?  Where did our entry fee go?  Are we supporting the Runoffs?  We know the trophies aren't that expensive?  Where is the breakdown?

 I know, another dead horse, sorry!

 

 

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turbotoddie
todd farris
CP96

turbotoddie:

Since the door has opened and since we all know SCCA didn't pay rent for the SOLO Natls?  Where did our entry fee go?  Are we supporting the Runoffs?  We know the trophies aren't that expensive?  Where is the breakdown?

 I know, another dead horse, sorry!

 

 

Just think about the costs of any business and their events.

1. General overhead will be charges to all enterprises undertaken.  Staff $ etc

2. Insurance

3. Printing, advertising

4. Banqent hall rental /food

5.  Equipment expenses and replacement costs.

6.  Basically every cost associated with the Solo program will be prorated against the National championships.

7.  List is not all-inclusive.

8.  I was told a few years ago, by a person in the know, that the entry fees would be much higher if not for substantial support by Sponsors.
 

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Tim R
#80 2006 Honda S2000

treinhar:

Just think about the costs of any business and their events.

4. Banquet hall rental / food. 

Boy we really should look into a refund on this one.

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Matt Murray

I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today.

mattm:

treinhar:

Just think about the costs of any business and their events.

4. Banquet hall rental / food. 

Boy we really should look into a refund on this one.

 I never implied that is was all well spent, just that a lot of little $ can add up
 

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Tim R
#80 2006 Honda S2000

cmt52663:

+1 for succinct requirements: grip, air, warmth, safety, flexibility, space...

would increasing the amount of OUR hard earned money that SCCA can spend be acceptable?

it has already been pointed out that entry fees are a relatively minor slice of the total expense for most participants.  my draft budget for a Topeka trip is pushing 2k - i'd pony up a premium to the SCCA to make the destination outstanding...  i'd bet most folks spend quite a bit more than that.

$550 gas, $700 lodging, $700 food and spirits - no allowance for a dedicated set of tires ($500) - assumes 4k round trip miles, 30mpg

distance accounts for a third of the cost, and entry fees hardly even show up!

if 1,100 folks invest an average of 2k we're at 2.2m immediately - again, site cost increases seem less dramatic in that context

am i wandering off the reservation here?

 

I really don't want to spend MORE money to go to Nationals, but you make a great point, Charlie.  The entry fees are miniscule compared to the cost of the trip and car prep (tires, mostly).  If we got a terrific site in the central part of the country, I'd be willing to up the ante. 

 Like what Andy said, a terrfic site to me is having the NEED to haves: a large enough lot for two quality courses (larger that what we have now) and a grippy surface.  Everything else is a nice to have.  Yes, the showers are nice.  The tech building is nice.  The available gas is nice.  Paddock is adequate.  But the NEED to haves are not there.  :(

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Jer
#196 ES
#187 SS retired

ARGH.

from the June 08 issue of SportsCar: Mr Julow sez: "In addition, HPT has acquired a street sweeper, so the number one request from last year's participants has been fulfilled."

Thanks, but no thanks.

The number one request has not been fulfilled, it's been bandaided. No big deal I suppose if we're moving someplace better, but can we not pretend everything is rosy in print?

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Carrie
'89 STS2 CRX Si (Thanks Ian!)
'88 STS2 CRX Si (it's heeeeee---eeere!)
'93 ES MR2 in L1 on occaision (Thanks Jerry!)

Surferjer:

Like what Andy said, a terrfic site to me is having the NEED to haves: a large enough lot for two quality courses (larger that what we have now) and a grippy surface.

As far as I am concerned, the surface doesn't even have to be that grippy, just consistent.  I hate sliding off into oblivion because I chose to deviate by 6 inches from the preferred line.

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John S.
S2000 #42as

In addition, HPT has acquired a street sweeper

 

That guy is going to be tired at the end of the week.

scarrie:

ARGH.

from the June 08 issue of SportsCar: Mr Julow sez: "In addition, HPT has acquired a street sweeper, so the number one request from last year's participants has been fulfilled."

Thanks, but no thanks.

 

Yes, but rental of the street sweeper from HPT is equal to what they rent their golf karts for... $5K for the week! Ouch!

 

-MK ;-)
 

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Mike King
88 CRX Si - STS2 #99
Jacksonville, FL
2007, 2008 STS2 Solo National Champion
Team Bridgestone - King Motorsports - A-Spec Racing - Renspeed

Lexx:

In addition, HPT has acquired a street sweeper

 

That guy is going to be tired at the end of the week.

Dime to a dollar we never see that sweeper now during solo week. 

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Jer
#196 ES
#187 SS retired

Surferjer:

Lexx:

In addition, HPT has acquired a street sweeper

 

That guy is going to be tired at the end of the week.

Dime to a dollar we never see that sweeper now during solo week. 

I don't remember where the first sweeper was going to be coming from, but there were alternate plans *already in place* for a backup sweeper if there was trouble with the first.

DaveW

Until something is set in stone on where we will be next year (which it sounds like we are a LONG LONG way from).  I'd be doing anything we can to try and keep HPT for at least 09 to buy some time to find something.   That or everyone who even thinks they have a site in mind for nationals should send the name and any contact information to the national office.... bod @ scca . com

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Shawn Hill
07 Mini Cooper HS
Kansas City Region SCCA

Ralt25:

scarrie:

why not "just" fix forbes?

It would take millions of $.  It really needs to be totally ripped up and replaced.  If it was done in asphalt, we would probably have the sand all over again anyway. 

How many square feet is HTP. I have been doing a lot of research and getting quotes for 2" overlay on 500,000 sq ft. The average quote with race track quality asphalt is 1$ per square foot. So it's not even close to millions and millions, I would guess it's 700,000 to 1,000,000 tops to resurface.

My price in in super pricey California bay area. 

Chris 

Chris,

HPT is 1000x1000, so 1million sf.   Forbes is quite a bit bigger (Lynn probably has exact dimensions)

Also, there would be some serious prep work.  You can't just lay 2" of asphalt over 60 year old crumbling concrete and expect it to last.  IIRC, Howard mentioned numbers under $1,000,000 several years go (2003?) to do "major repair" of the joints in the South Course area (leaving it concrete) and to mill down and pave an area roughly following typical courses on the North Course area. 

Though, you'd have to think that a $50 surcharge to the entry fee would pay pretty good debt service on a few million dollars...:)  I'd pay it for guaranteed usage of the site for 10 or 20 years.

DaveW

If you put the paddock in the north course area and the north course in the paddock area, you could avoid the serious work. Also, my quotes also included over 15,0000 square feet of cut out and repair in the buck per square foot. The technology to do repairs has come a long way in the last 5 years with the automated diamond grinding machines that did not exist in 2003. A million dollars is not a lot of money in the long run, for the health of the sport. If one region can come up with it in 20 years 5 bucks at a time, national should be able to do it in much less that half that time IMO.

There is no point in talking about Forbes.  It isn't happening.  The city has a no compete agreement with HPT.  The Air Guard and another government agency are using the pads.  The FAA and TSA didn't like us there before and won't welcome us now.  Their permission is required to use the ramp area.

It's time to move on.

BTW, the combined size of the two pads was over 2 million square feet.
 

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2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee

Lynn:

There is no point in talking about Forbes.  It isn't happening.  The city has a no compete agreement with HPT.  The Air Guard and another government agency are using the pads.  The FAA and TSA didn't like us there before and won't welcome us now.  Their permission is required to use the ramp area.

It's time to move on.

BTW, the combined size of the two pads was over 2 million square feet.

 

Not saying that Forbes is an option but........ 

 The city wouldn't be competing with HPT.  According to a source that called HPT today, the SCCA was given the boot by HPT in regards to future Solo Nats.  Thats right, Solo Nats is not welcome at HPT no matter how much money the SCCA throws at them(according to my source who spoke with HPT today).  So, we have been refused business.  Therefore, the city would not be competing with HPT since HPT is no longer an option for the SCCA and Solo Nats.

Maybe the City of Topeka would be willing to build a pad for us somewhere in the outskirts of town?  They have seen the massive annual impact that Solo Nats provides to the city.  It would be well worth them spending 2-3 million or so on the Solo Nats facility.  Plus, I would imagine the KS region would hold events there probably on a bi-monthly basis during the season as well.  There is plenty of land on the outskirts of town in Topeka, so, I don't see land being an issue.

Or, if the city truly cannot compete with HPT in regards to Solo Nats, how about the KS region request a grant from the city to build their own facility.  HPT received monies from the City, why wouldn't the KS region be given the same good will if they had some sort of longer term guarantee that nats would remain in Topeka.

 

 

Some business minded people are really missing the boat.  I'm not sure how many companies/corporations would use a rather large patch of asphalt with basic amenities in the Topeka area, but there are many other, denser populated areas that certainly could make it if they took a development of this caliber on as a business. 

Some background on why we lost the large parking lot at TMS.... For those who attended the Tour events we held there a few years ago, you can appreciate the size and scope of that particular lot, which at one time was deemed the largest continuous piece of asphalt in the country, pre-millineum, dedicated to parking.  We lost it due to deterioration, not because of any negative impact autocross cars had on it, but because it was not a premium grade asphalt to begin with.  Large companies would rent it for huge events, some driving, some other, and they would park large trucks and erect huge tents, driving stakes into the asphalt to anchor the tents.  As we all know, those 18 wheelers are pretty heavy, especially when loaded, and especially car haulers with mulitple cars aboard, sitting in the hot sun for days at a time.  This wreaked havoc on the surface, and when the rains came, seeping through the damaged surface, eroding the sand underneath, the place came apart in massive areas.

I worked with the director in charge of the TMS lots, and although that venue was extremely pricey, they could rent it practically every day of the year, for weeks at a time to some corporations.  When he informed me that we would no longer be able to rent that site, nor could anyone else rent it, regardless of the company, (BMW, Chrysler, GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, and other companies used it for ride and drive programs) he was very sad since that was taking away a huge annual income from the track, which amounted to 7 figures annually.  However, the cost to repair, and use a better grade of asphalt such as the bus lot, at that time would have cost them nearly 8 million dollars.  By now, the cost is most likey more than 10 million, for that one, huge lot.  Sadly, they have many huge lots that are perfect venues for autocrossing, but only the bus lot has the grade of asphalt that will hold up.  That lot is rented nearly every weekend, and quite often on many week days.

My point was, if someone would build a lot sufficient to hold Nationals near a large metropolitan area, it could be a money maker.  You would think that in an area the size of Dallas-Fort Worth, someone would be willing to do just that.  Land in the surrounding areas is relatively flat, and still relatively cheap.  I can see where a 6 to 7 million dollar investment, including land, asphalt, and necessary amenities, could pay for itself in a 5 to 6 year period, assuming it is marketed correctly and properly maintained,   There are companies who come to the metroplex all the time looking for facilities such as this for various activities, mostly car related, however, their choice is either the TMS bus lot, or the horse track in Grand Prarie...The horse track charges 10K per day for use of that facility...

Yep, 7M is still a ton of money for most of us mortals, but we have a TX Region member who is an architect, and did the basic design and lay-out of a race track destined to become one of the best road courses in the country, Eagles Canyon.  I think he would be highly capable of getting a project such as this up and running without breaking anyone's bank...plus, he's also a very capable autocrosser.

Anyone hit the lottery lately?

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OzCop

"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

Known roadblocks in Lubbock @ Reese?  4000 hotel rooms & unlike Topeka served by 3 airlines.  Sent the City's CD director contact information for the national office just in case they might be interested.

Steve E

>Anyone hit the lottery lately?

 You better hope it's not me.  You'll all be travelling to Wisonsin for Nats!

It will be to be re-named in my honor, and I will insist on winning my class each year.

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Patrick Washburn
STU Evo
www.winghats.com