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Now I know why TMS is not in the equation...I used to autocross in Dallas/Ft. Worth about  16 years ago, and the local venues were either too small (HEB Stadium in Bedford) or the surface was deteriorating (old Air Force base in Mineral Wells).

 Guys, what about the closed Naval Air Station Dallas in Grand Prairie?  I was stationed there in the early 90s, and it had a huge tarmac, as well as a long runway that runs north/south with taxiways...not as big as Naval Air Station Ft. Worth that replaced it, but the latter is operational and definitely not available. 

 What's the old Naval Air Station being used for?  Anything?

 

 

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Bill Sims 1987 Alfa Romeo Milano 3.0
SM #53, Delta Region

I agree that Nationals should be geographically located.  As has been pointed out, if venue favors one coast over another, then that coast will be better represented.   I'd like to see something in Dallas/Ft. Worth--that is 1/2 way between the 2 coasts, but definitely further for our friends in the Northeast/Northwest.

 Something in Kansas or Missouri is the best bet!

As for going after the demographic center of the continental United States (sorry, Canadian Provinces were not included in the original computations), it would be the suburbs of Cincinnati across the river in northern Kentucky...every wonder why so many parts, including Koni shocks, have a Kentucky shipping address?   That's the reason--Florence, Erlanger, Ft. Thomas, Ft. Mitchell, Erlanger are major distribution hubs because of the demographic center. 

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Bill Sims 1987 Alfa Romeo Milano 3.0
SM #53, Delta Region

Bill-Sims:

Now I know why TMS is not in the equation...I used to autocross in Dallas/Ft. Worth about  16 years ago, and the local venues were either too small (HEB Stadium in Bedford) or the surface was deteriorating (old Air Force base in Mineral Wells).

 Guys, what about the closed Naval Air Station Dallas in Grand Prairie?  I was stationed there in the early 90s, and it had a huge tarmac, as well as a long runway that runs north/south with taxiways...not as big as Naval Air Station Ft. Worth that replaced it, but the latter is operational and definitely not available. 

 What's the old Naval Air Station being used for?  Anything?

 

Not exactly sure what's going on with that facility now, but we tried for several years to get  a foot in the door there, and kept getting rejected.  The last I heard there was commercial activity going on, and more buisiness moving in, but that was three years ago...

 

 

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OzCop

"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

duplicate post

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OzCop

"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."

47CP:

Patrick Washburn:

Lynn:

There will be no deal with HPT unless Ray Irwin has made a significant change in his position that the Nationals are not wanted at HPT.

 You mean like by being offered a check?  Money talks a different language.

Check from who?

From SCCA for "rental"?  If thats the case, get ready for $2-300 entry fees.  Maybe more if only 200 people show up. :) 

From the Government?  The Kansas Taxpayers have to be a bit sore from being ass raped (IMO) already, don't you think?  I can't imagine them paying more money to keep us, but there is an outside chance that they could change Raymond's mind by effecting the terms of money already given. 

DaveW

If I were to guess who, the Topeka Convention and Visitors Bureau comes to mind. If they just gave him the bed tax for competitors that would be $25-35k. The TCVB used to put up about $5k for the welcome party (which Kumho now covers), which came from the bed taxes. The city stands to lose a couple of million dollars if the Solo Nationals leaves, so they might have a slight interest in keeping them here. 

Since he only loses one weekend (not too many people rent the track during the week, except before Runoffs... which won't be a problem in 2009), that would be more than he would normally get for rent. Since the city has already earmarked $300k for repayment of bonds, they might use that as leverage too.

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David Avard
89 Honda Civic Si black (STS)
07 Mazda 3s (HS?)

Davard:

If I were to guess who, the Topeka Convention and Visitors Bureau comes to mind. If they just gave him the bed tax for competitors that would be $25-35k. The TCVB used to put up about $5k for the welcome party (which Kumho now covers), which came from the bed taxes. The city stands to lose a couple of million dollars if the Solo Nationals leaves, so they might have a slight interest in keeping them here.

Since he only loses one weekend (not too many people rent the track during the week, except before Runoffs... which won't be a problem in 2009), that would be more than he would normally get for rent. Since the city has already earmarked $300k for repayment of bonds, they might use that as leverage too.

I sure hope none of that comes to pass.  I agree with Ray Irwin.  I want out of HPT, too. 

I remember actually looking forward to that once a year trip to a great site instead of dreading it.  No amount of great social activities will make up for a lousy racing surface, IMO. 

--Andy 

Your just sour because you almost hit a pole and a fence at Nats last year. Actually running on the HPT surface is in my opinion much nicer that Forbes Field, not to mention I don't have to mix 700 lbs of patch mix. Ah the good old day at Forbes . 

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Ron Williams

Multi-time national champion---ship trophy winner

Andy Hollis:

I sure hope none of that comes to pass.  I agree with Ray Irwin.  I want out of HPT, too. 

I remember actually looking forward to that once a year trip to a great site instead of dreading it.  No amount of great social activities will make up for a lousy racing surface, IMO. 

--Andy 

And this sad attitude of no amount of social activities boils through to everyone!  We only went thru 14 bottles of mix last year!!   That may be an all time low!!!   Ahhh...not like at Forbes where we could decorate golf carts...but that is another story...

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Tracy Ramsey
Team Blenderblaster
2000 MR2 DP Spyder

Davard:

47CP:

Patrick Washburn:

Lynn:

There will be no deal with HPT unless Ray Irwin has made a significant change in his position that the Nationals are not wanted at HPT.

 You mean like by being offered a check?  Money talks a different language.

Check from who?

From SCCA for "rental"?  If thats the case, get ready for $2-300 entry fees.  Maybe more if only 200 people show up. :) 

From the Government?  The Kansas Taxpayers have to be a bit sore from being ass raped (IMO) already, don't you think?  I can't imagine them paying more money to keep us, but there is an outside chance that they could change Raymond's mind by effecting the terms of money already given. 

DaveW

If I were to guess who, the Topeka Convention and Visitors Bureau comes to mind. If they just gave him the bed tax for competitors that would be $25-35k. The TCVB used to put up about $5k for the welcome party (which Kumho now covers), which came from the bed taxes. The city stands to lose a couple of million dollars if the Solo Nationals leaves, so they might have a slight interest in keeping them here. 

Since he only loses one weekend (not too many people rent the track during the week, except before Runoffs... which won't be a problem in 2009), that would be more than he would normally get for rent. Since the city has already earmarked $300k for repayment of bonds, they might use that as leverage too.

Obviously, anything I know is much further from the source than DAvard, so take it for what you paid for it. :)

My understanding was that the "lost revenue" numbers quoted by Ray were insanely high.  Two lost weekends of rent, blah, blah.   Really, Really inflated. 

I really don't like the HPT site at all, and would like to go elsewhere, but conversely I Like the city of Topeka and have enjoyed going there.  For that second reason, I would hope the city and state taxpayers get a fair shake rather than getting hosed over bruised egos.  Unfortunately, with politicians and track owners, common sense probably won't prevail....:(

DaveW

Andy Hollis:

Davard:

If I were to guess who, the Topeka Convention and Visitors Bureau comes to mind. If they just gave him the bed tax for competitors that would be $25-35k. The TCVB used to put up about $5k for the welcome party (which Kumho now covers), which came from the bed taxes. The city stands to lose a couple of million dollars if the Solo Nationals leaves, so they might have a slight interest in keeping them here.

Since he only loses one weekend (not too many people rent the track during the week, except before Runoffs... which won't be a problem in 2009), that would be more than he would normally get for rent. Since the city has already earmarked $300k for repayment of bonds, they might use that as leverage too.

I sure hope none of that comes to pass.  I agree with Ray Irwin.  I want out of HPT, too. 

I remember actually looking forward to that once a year trip to a great site instead of dreading it.  No amount of great social activities will make up for a lousy racing surface, IMO. 

--Andy 

 

100% agree.  See you all next year.  I am done with HPT. 

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2006 Noble M400 (E-Mod?)
CHASECAM the global leader in motorsport video acqusition. We innovate, not copy or import. Sponsor for SCCA ProSolo, Runoffs, SPEED World Challenge, SCCAForums. Supplier to MazdaSpeed, V8Supercars, Formula 1 teams, etc.

Well, you guys must be really confident a better site will be found.  I'd give it 50-50 that people will be wishing we were back at HPT next year.

Dave G.

If there is grip, and a hotel within 40 minutes, I won't complain a bit.   Look at all the people who go to Grissom...   A couple of Porta potties, gas stations near, and always fun in Kokomo...

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Tracy Ramsey
Team Blenderblaster
2000 MR2 DP Spyder

talon95:

Well, you guys must be really confident a better site will be found.  I'd give it 50-50 that people will be wishing we were back at HPT next year.

Dave G.

 

I am not confident at all. Hopeful. But I have no data or reason to think we will not be back.  But if we are still at HPT, I will find something else to do in September. Money talks really and I won't be back.  Love Topeka. Hate the surface at HPT. 

 

I would rather be at a "crappy" site like Wendover, Forbes, whatever... if the grip and lot was good.  Sure, some people think the showers, tech building, etc make up for it. I am not one of those people.  Community does not depend on those things and I felt we had better community at Forbes.  We also had larger courses.  Better grip.  Seems to me that porta-potties is a worthwhile trade off. 

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2006 Noble M400 (E-Mod?)
CHASECAM the global leader in motorsport video acqusition. We innovate, not copy or import. Sponsor for SCCA ProSolo, Runoffs, SPEED World Challenge, SCCAForums. Supplier to MazdaSpeed, V8Supercars, Formula 1 teams, etc.

talon95:

Well, you guys must be really confident a better site will be found.  I'd give it 50-50 that people will be wishing we were back at HPT next year.

Dave G.

 I hope we find a killer site.  I have a sneaky suspicion NASA will somehow land a whale-of-a-site for their first "NASACross" National Championship in 2009 and will relish rubbing our noses in it if we end up back at HTP.   

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Once you go Mac, you never go back!

ron:

Your just sour because you almost hit a pole and a fence at Nats last year.. 

Not at all.  I hated it the first year, too.  And it is not just the surface.  The attitude of Ed "I can be a jerk if I want to" Ozment is enough to turn anyone off.  Yeah, he actually said that (well, he used the A-word instead).  While they certainly won't say it publicly, the national staff has not had positive experiences in dealing with HPT.  My car is a disposable appliance.  I can make another one.

That said, we are trying to cram 10 lbs of stuff into a 5 lb bag.  The course proximities are too close to one another, as well as too close to the borders.  Last year, Ann spun from one course to the other.  Good thing there was no other car coming or we'd have had a car-car incident (the worst kind).  We also had people falling down chasing cones.  All of our safety regs are based on some level of grip to slow down errant cars through the "safety margin" zone.  That doesn't happen at HPT because there is so little grip.   I wasn't the only one going to the edge of the pavement.  I just happened to be the one that hit something.

I'll say it now, if we go back to HPT in 2009, I will not go.  I'm really serious. 

--Andy 

Andy Hollis:

ron:

Your just sour because you almost hit a pole and a fence at Nats last year.. 

Not at all.  I hated it the first year, too.  And it is not just the surface.  The attitude of Ed "I can be a jerk if I want to" Ozment is enough to turn anyone off.  Yeah, he actually said that (well, he used the A-word instead).  While they certainly won't say it publicly, the national staff has not had positive experiences in dealing with HPT.  My car is a disposable appliance.  I can make another one.

--Andy 

Well, that exact problem won't be an issue anymore.  Ed was fired last month.

I know that is only 1/100th of the problem....:)

DaveW

Andy Hollis:

ron:

Your just sour because you almost hit a pole and a fence at Nats last year.. 

Not at all.  I hated it the first year, too.  And it is not just the surface.  The attitude of Ed "I can be a jerk if I want to" Ozment is enough to turn anyone off.  Yeah, he actually said that (well, he used the A-word instead).  While they certainly won't say it publicly, the national staff has not had positive experiences in dealing with HPT.  My car is a disposable appliance.  I can make another one.

--Andy 

 

You know Ed no longer works for HPT.

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Brian Harmer
SCCA Solo Technical Assistant
Solo National Rules: http://www.scca.com/documents/Solo%20Rules/2008_Solo_Rules_2.pdf
FastTrack: http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=78

47CP:

[

Well, that exact problem won't be an issue anymore.  Ed was fired last month.

I know that is only 1/100th of the problem....:)

DaveW

No kidding?  You just made my day a bit brighter!  Thanks! 

--Andy 

gary p:

 I hope we find a killer site.  I have a sneaky suspicion NASA will somehow land a whale-of-a-site for their first "NASACross" National Championship in 2009 and will relish rubbing our noses in it if we end up back at HTP.   

Of course they will. With smaller attendance, that is much easier.  That is like comparing the ability to find a good place to play flag football for the team at work versus finding a good site for the superbowl.

DaveW