SCCAForums.com

The NJ State Police Racing Commission stopped by and wanted to halt the event because convertibles were running without rollbars.

Apparently the addition of the Milville Racing course in NJ has created a new division of the State Police responsible for all Racing activities in NJ.  He said that all safety requirements in Racing, HPDEs, driving schools, skilled driving events and drifting events are now covered by new legislation and enforced by the NJ State Police Racing Commission and the new law requires all convertibles used in these events to be equiped with rollbars.

It was explained to him that we were a sanctioned SCCA event and our national rules only require rollbars in convertibles equiped with shoulder restraints.

This is kind of like the local police going to an NHRA event and stopping it because they don't have air bags.

The trooper eventually allowed the event to continue but took pictures of convertibles running without rollbars and requested our regional SCCA to review it's requirements and invite him to the next meeting.

Hopefully this gets worked out.  Strange....

---

Ted

2004 Z16/Z06 SS

The New Jersey State Police have been responsible for auto racing in NJ for at least 50 years.

---

2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee

Your tax dollars at work.

 

You fromm Jerssey

Youu frrom Jerrsey

(As spoken by Joe Piscopo)

---

Trying to get faster

Welcome to The Nanny State.  They should just go ahead and put that on their license plates.

---

Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

From the state that doesn't think you have the capability or proper training to pump your own gas.  I absolutely hate Jersey.

---

2006 Subaru WRX STi
Sponsored by AgileAuto.com
D.C./Philly Region - 3 STU
cardomain.com/id/piknockout

TedDBere:

The NJ State Police Racing Commission stopped by and wanted to halt the event because convertibles were running without rollbars.

Apparently the addition of the Milville Racing course in NJ has created a new division of the State Police responsible for all Racing activities in NJ.  He said that all safety requirements in Racing, HPDEs, driving schools, skilled driving events and drifting events are now covered by new legislation and enforced by the NJ State Police Racing Commission and the new law requires all convertibles used in these events to be equiped with rollbars.

It was explained to him that we were a sanctioned SCCA event and our national rules only require rollbars in convertibles equiped with shoulder restraints.

This is kind of like the local police going to an NHRA event and stopping it because they don't have air bags.

The trooper eventually allowed the event to continue but took pictures of convertibles running without rollbars and requested our regional SCCA to review it's requirements and invite him to the next meeting.

Although that is what happened, that is not the whole story. (I used to apply for the license to run in NJ so I know a little more to the story)

The State Police and specifically the Race Commission have been in charge of issuing racing certificates/licenses to those who operate motorsports facilities.  There are 3-5 troopers who are in the motorsports division.  The race commission makes no differentiation between road race and autocross and the rules for running events have been in place for years (some have recently been changed due to the new motorsports park).  When the license is applied for, autocross organizers apply for and have been granted exceptions to certain roadrace rules, like rollcages, window nets, long pants, firesuits, etc. The officer was complaining about those items.  Once it was understood what the problems the officer was complaining about onsite, the organizer pulled out thier paperwork from the state.  The paperwork onsite was correct for what we were doing and the issues that he was describing were handled by the exceptions granted.  In fact, the Divisional Safety Steward happened to be onsite and helped explain to the officer about some of our own rules. 

He did take pictures of cars with and without rollbars - specifically Miatas.  It sounded, at the event, that the rollbar convertible exception would not be granted for next year.  Hopefully, sanity will prevail and the exception will be granted again in the foreseeable future. 

---

Rob Leone

'07 Solstice GXP in AS
'87 Toyota Corolla in EP
ex - '91 MR2 Turbo in SM2 <- If you can't set a good example, serve as a horrible warning.

SpyderVenom:

Hopefully, sanity will prevail...

In New Jersey?  I wouldn't count on it.  We probably need to start working on the New Jersey Convertible Autocross Owner's Club State Official Bribery, Payoff, and Kickback Fund now.

---

Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

hmm.   that's a good excuse for a harddog.  not sayin' my car couldn't use all the chassis stiffening it can get, but i'm just sayin'.

piknockout:

From the state that doesn't think you have the capability or proper training to pump your own gas.  I absolutely hate Jersey.

so long as it stays cheaper than anyplace else, i'm happy to sit in the a/c and let someone else do it. 

---

Mike - #44 STS2
'91 Miata - racer
'07 CX-7 - dog taxi
www.phillyscca.com
www.GreyhoundAngelsAdoption.com

dmitrik4:

piknockout:

From the state that doesn't think you have the capability or proper training to pump your own gas.  I absolutely hate Jersey.

so long as it stays cheaper than anyplace else, i'm happy to sit in the a/c and let someone else do it. 

I've got to agree.  That's one of the few things I like about NJ...they pump it and it costs less than other states.  All the other states got tricked into believing that if you pump it yourself you'll pay less...wrong.

Maybe we should spring for an SCCA rules book to give to the NJ State Police Racing Commission.  Can someone pass me one?

---

Ted

2004 Z16/Z06 SS

DaveH:

SpyderVenom:

Hopefully, sanity will prevail...

In New Jersey?  I wouldn't count on it.  We probably need to start working on the New Jersey Convertible Autocross Owner's Club State Official Bribery, Payoff, and Kickback Fund now.

 

with respect (and in all good humor) I do hope some of the presumably knowledgeable and interested members of the NJ State Police aren't too active in this forum.  i wouldn't be surprised if those gents (and ladies?) are at least in some cases as much motorsports fan as some of this crowd...

---

Charlie Thompson
'04 JCW Cooper [STX]
NER Cannon Fodder

TedDBere:

dmitrik4:

piknockout:

From the state that doesn't think you have the capability or proper training to pump your own gas.  I absolutely hate Jersey.

so long as it stays cheaper than anyplace else, i'm happy to sit in the a/c and let someone else do it. 

I've got to agree.  That's one of the few things I like about NJ...they pump it and it costs less than other states.  All the other states got tricked into believing that if you pump it yourself you'll pay less...wrong.

Maybe we should spring for an SCCA rules book to give to the NJ State Police Racing Commission.  Can someone pass me one?

State gasoline taxes

• New Jersey     14.5 cents
• New York        30.3 cents
• Delaware         23   cents
• Pennsylvania   26.7 cents
• Maryland         23.5 cents
• Rhode Isand    31    cents
• Connecticut     29.7 cents

Only Alaska, Georgia and Wyoming have lower gasoline taxes.  No one is being tricked.  New Jerseyites are under taxed.  And, yes, it is cheaper to pump it yourself.  There are still a few places around the Midwest where you can have it pumped for you.  You will pay 10 cents a gallon for the service.

Back on topic.  Are they going to make closed cars run window nets since they want arm restraints for convertibles? 

---

2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee

Lynn:

  New Jerseyites are under taxed.   

There is no such thing as being "under taxed".  The state has no business telling its citizens they can't pump their own gas. 

Nor does the state have any business regulating the rules in private organization's sporting event.  Or regulating safety standards on vehicles that are not used on the state's public roads. 

---

Steve Hoelscher
#27 DP - Toyota MR2
http://www.terriehoward.com

cmt52663:

DaveH:

SpyderVenom:

Hopefully, sanity will prevail...

In New Jersey?  I wouldn't count on it.  We probably need to start working on the New Jersey Convertible Autocross Owner's Club State Official Bribery, Payoff, and Kickback Fund now.

 

with respect (and in all good humor) I do hope some of the presumably knowledgeable and interested members of the NJ State Police aren't too active in this forum.  i wouldn't be surprised if those gents (and ladies?) are at least in some cases as much motorsports fan as some of this crowd...

"State Official" refers to the lawmakers, not the police.  The politics over there are almost as dirty as in Louisiana.  I recognize that the trooper in question was just doing his job and enforcing the laws as they are written.  I just question how those laws are written.  When the government starts telling you what you can and can't do on private property, it's time to start collecting guns.

---

Dave Heinig

07 GXP Z0K (Thanks Rob!)

Steve Hoelscher:

Lynn:

  New Jerseyites are under taxed.   

There is no such thing as being "under taxed".  The state has no business telling its citizens they can't pump their own gas. 

Nor does the state have any business regulating the rules in private organization's sporting event.  Or regulating safety standards on vehicles that are not used on the state's public roads. 

That was intended as a joke, Steve.  I know a few people who have or do live in NJ.  While gasoline taxes may be low, the other taxes aren't.  It is theoretically possible to be under taxed if the taxes don't cover the cost of essential services.  I doubt that has happened anywhere in the US in many decades.

Sounds like you're voting Libertarian this year.  I am.  They wouldn't be telling us we need roll bars, arm restraints, etc.

I hope those of you in Jersey can convince the proper authorities that autocross and road racing are very different things.

---

2002 Mercedes C230k, retired, 2005 Nationals STU DFL

1969 Beach Solo Vee and 1985 Lynx B Solo Vee

I agree Steve, the state shouldn't have any right to regulate what you do on your own private property short of murder and things like that.  But I don't think Virginia and New Jersey state governments are Democracies anymore either.  Yes we vote people into office, but the power is surly not in the hands of the people anymore.

---

Phil K.
2002 Camaro SS, #68 ESP

The whole East Coast is weird.  

Here in PA you can't buy beer and wine/liquor at the same stores because the beer is state-run.  You also cannot receive beer or wine from another state (like importing a bottle from Deleware). 

Restaurants can't get liquor licenses unless they buy them from existing restaurants, so PA has created such a demand for liquor licenses that new restaurants are ignoring the state or shelling out 300K-400K for a license.  New Jersey is WORSE! 

When I went to the driver's license station to get a REQUIRED BY LAW PA license, I had to show a driver's license and a social security card and two proofs that I was a residence.  A passport, good around the world as proof of US residency, wasn't good enough for PA.  Apparently they don't believe a social security number was needed to get the freakin passport! 

And they give you 30 days to get your license or you are in violation of the law.  But you don't get your first utility bills until after 30 days, so how do you show two proofs of actually living here?  A mortgage wasn't enough.   

 It's a good thing there's so much racing going on here! 

---

Jer
1993 MR2 #196 ES
2005 Lotus Elise (retired)
1999 Dodge 4X4 tow vehicle
1993 Miata (just tired)
1987 Corolla Lemons car
1984 Citation Lemons car

Surferjer:

I was a residence.

Well, you've certainly slimmed down since then.

---

clyde
#198 AS Boxster S - in need of SpinGuard
TeamWTF?!

Surferjer:

The whole East Coast is weird.   

Nah, its just those states where the crooked politicians are so entrenched they have their fingers in everything.  I am familiar with PA laws on alcohol.  Stupid just doesn't cover it. 

Florida wasn't bad.  When I moved here I had a driver's license in 20 minutes from arrival at the courthouse.  Trying to get a PO Box for my mail was another matter all together.  I want my mail to go to a PO Box instead of my home.  But I have to have a utility bill and a bank statement with a physical address on it to rent the PO Box.  A copy of my deed from the State of Florida showing I owned a home that I claimed as my residence and a property tax statement on the same address showing my homestead exemption was inadequate for proof of residence to the United States Post Office to rent a PO Box.

Jer, move to Alabama.   Laws governing alcohol sales and service are quite reasonable.  Plus, there are still a number of dry counties where there are no legal sales at all.  That means that you can buy any kind of beer, wine, liquour any time you want with no ID and because you aren't paying the state sales tax, its cheaper than in the counties that have legal sales. 

---

Steve Hoelscher
#27 DP - Toyota MR2
http://www.terriehoward.com

Steve Hoelscher:

Plus, there are still a number of dry counties where there are no legal sales at all.  That means that you can buy any kind of beer, wine, liquour any time you want with no ID and because you aren't paying the state sales tax, its cheaper than in the counties that have legal sales. 

That sounds like moonshine and that brings us right back to PA. 
 

---

Rob Leone

'07 Solstice GXP in AS
'87 Toyota Corolla in EP
ex - '91 MR2 Turbo in SM2 <- If you can't set a good example, serve as a horrible warning.