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I hear there might be a protest?

FM

DS protest on JT's Canadian bumper disallowed.

DSP timing protest disallowed.

Sportsmanship protest on STX Civic competitor for taking a radiator hose from an unknowing STS competitors Civic during STX competition, replacing it later (but not toping off the coolant) without telling STS owner, etc.  Banned from national events in 2009 at a minimum.

I heard talk of a CS protest but didn't hear that it was actually filled.  MSR's aren't supposed to have leather steering wheel's but they could be argued under comfort and convenience.  

Thats all I know of.

Jeff
 

No STS protest? I was reminded AGAIN why I didn't like running in STS today as I left the site and Andy Hollis was still in there awaiting a decision after all the valve covers were pulled on the top few cars.   

Oh! By my quick calcs(might not be right)Some guy in a DM car might have taken top pax in the first run group of the week! YIKES!

First run group in the cold and green track in a Mod car?!?!?!

FM

ahem - I wish I was at the banquet right now...

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Nick Jackson
04 S2000 - BHP Brakes
71 240z w/some stuff

wowzers from what I've heard...

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- Wes 2000 Contour SVT (CP 3L powah) 1995 Miata (CSP, finally on sticky tires)

Howdy,

STS results listed as under protest... What's that about?

Mark

I don't believe there was a protest, but I could be wrong.

My understanding is that during a check of the top 3 STS cars in impound (a random class check) Mr. Hollis' car was found to have something illegal in the motor that he had professionally built for the car.

He got up at the banquet tonight and said this, apologized, and gave McCormick the STS award and the next in line for the overall award.

Very classy move by Andy in what is I am sure a very trying time. I can't begin to imagine what position he is in, or have any idea of what exactly happened/will happen, but he made a good move by doing this tonight in the public forum of the banquet. He received two standing ovations for his actions tonight, justified I believe from what everyone was told.

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I am Chris Hammond.
Going2Colorado.com

I can second the class of Andy Hollis tonight.  I am sure this was as much a surprise to him that it was to everyone in the class about his engine.  Doing what he did at the banquet was definitely the right thing to do and I think should help to also keep the forum chatter that was inevitable down.

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Colin Fiedler
07 STI
Milwaukee Region
Bridgestone and Racecomp Engineering
2008 STU National Champion

Howdy,

pinkertonpunk:

I can second the class of Andy Hollis tonight.  I am sure this was as much a surprise to him that it was to everyone in the class about his engine.  Doing what he did at the banquet was definitely the right thing to do and I think should help to also keep the forum chatter that was inevitable down.

Wait.

Andy Hollis, the guy who afaik goes down in history as the recipient of the biggest fine/discipline for cheating in the history of autox, got caught cheating again?

And the reaction of some folks to this is "I'm sure this was as much a surprise to him"?

That stretches my ability to believe a little too far.

Anyway, let that alone.

He "mans up" and stands up at the banquet and does what would have happened anyway, while at the same time shifting the blame to his engine builder?  How is that manning up?

Ok, let _that_ alone.

Here's the thing... Andy needs to stop autocrossing, hopefully voluntarily but by enforcement of the SCCA if necessary.  Anything less makes a mockery of our sport.  I don't give a crap whose "fault" the cheater engine was or how nice an apology you offer up after you get caught... Its his responsibility and I think this is a case where you don't get the benefit of the doubt when its your second major offense.

Andy pushes his cars to the bleeding edge of the rules (how many other folks in STS have pro built motors?)  When you're at the sharp end of things like that, you better be ready to own up to illegalities, not retreat into "I didn't know".

I hope Andy does the right thing.  If he doesn't, I hope the SCCA has the balls to do it for him.

Mark

oh yeah... Does anyone else think if this wasn't Andy that a request to get on stage and plead their case would fall on deaf ears?

Fastmike:

Oh! By my quick calcs(might not be right)Some guy in a DM car might have taken top pax in the first run group of the week! YIKES!

First run group in the cold and green track in a Mod car?!?!?!

Well, if it's true it just shows how out of whack Rick The Pr...oducer of the RTP index is.  To quote an oft used phrase on these forums, "WTF is he thinking!!".   

We should note that after Tuesdays runs on the east course, cone 435 was moved out 5 feet and 436 was moved out 3 feet to avoid a patched spot.  435 made it harder to get into the slalom however 436 made the actual slalom a touch easier since the 3 cones where no longer in a straight line.  No clue how much it slowed the course.  I'd have thought F125 would have done really well on index considering all the slaloms on the east course.  Has anyone scanned the course maps yet?  Haven't seen them online. 

Jeff

Mark,

Your post makes it sound like you have an axe to grind.  I read the tone of your post as somewhere between seriously tweaked and frothing at the mouth.  Is that really how you feel?  You make some good points, but essentially asking for him to be banned comes across a bit harsh.  I don't know the whole story... I'm a late comer to the autocross scene (relatively speaking).  I'm in no position to pass judgement on Andy's history in the sport.  I just have to ask if you are being fair to Andy.

Andy Howe 

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SM ~ '96 Subaru Impreza
Old Car: A Stock ~ 2000 Honda S2000

cashmo:

Fastmike:

Oh! By my quick calcs(might not be right)Some guy in a DM car might have taken top pax in the first run group of the week! YIKES!

First run group in the cold and green track in a Mod car?!?!?!

Well, if it's true it just shows how out of whack Rick The Pr...oducer of the RTP index is.  To quote an oft used phrase on these forums, "WTF is he thinking!!".   

We should note that after Tuesdays runs on the east course, cone 435 was moved out 5 feet and 436 was moved out 3 feet to avoid a patched spot.  435 made it harder to get into the slalom however 436 made the actual slalom a touch easier since the 3 cones where no longer in a straight line.  No clue how much it slowed the course.  I'd have thought F125 would have done really well on index considering all the slaloms on the east course.  Has anyone scanned the course maps yet?  Haven't seen them online. 

Jeff

Maybe it was all that grid work that kept a low # of cars at the line that helped secure the top pax? HAHA.

I heard that some of the other grids didn't go so well...

FM

What are the specifics of the protested engine modification or part? Does anyone know?

 

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.

marka:

Andy pushes his cars to the bleeding edge of the rules (how many other folks in STS have pro built motors?)  When you're at the sharp end of things like that, you better be ready to own up to illegalities, not retreat into "I didn't know".

I hope Andy does the right thing.  If he doesn't, I hope the SCCA has the balls to do it for him.

Mark

oh yeah... Does anyone else think if this wasn't Andy that a request to get on stage and plead their case would fall on deaf ears?

if i had the money and time, you're damn right i'd have a "pro built" motor instead of the 237,000 mile sad-sack i have now.  i'd bet that 99% of the rest of ST* would as well.  you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

what's "the right thing", if not giving back what he's won this year?  and honestly, i think someone like Andy deserves a chance to "get on stage" and set the record straight.  he does a lot for the sport and especially for those of us who aren't "pros."  i don't see anyone else sharing their build progress and tips.  where's the thread where you help out your in-class competitors, mark?  and it doesn't sound like he was "pleading his case" at all

it sounds like he did "own up to" the problem.  i'm surprised that someone as experienced as Andy didn't know--he's talked about how it's the competitor's responsibility to know what's going on--but stranger things have happened.  i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 to this disinterested observer, it seems like he manned up and dealt with it in a stand-up manner, whether he knew about it or not.  sometimes s**t happens.  all we can ask is that the person take responsibility, whether it was their "fault" or not.

 what's your issue?  sounds like something personal you should probably work out offline.

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Mike - #44 STS2
'91 Miata - racer
'07 CX-7 - dog taxi
www.phillyscca.com
www.GreyhoundAngelsAdoption.com

Hi mom

 

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Trying to get faster

From what I understand, the top three STS cars had their valve covers removed in impound. Mr. Hollis' car had its valve springs shimmed. Nothing else was checked as that was enough to DQ.

Interesting.  There was DQ in the impound.  I thought there was only that greasy pizza for sale.  If I knew there was DQ available, then I think I would have asked for a small Oreo Blizzard.

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Trying to get faster

marka:

Howdy,

pinkertonpunk:

I can second the class of Andy Hollis tonight.  I am sure this was as much a surprise to him that it was to everyone in the class about his engine.  Doing what he did at the banquet was definitely the right thing to do and I think should help to also keep the forum chatter that was inevitable down.

Wait.

Andy Hollis, the guy who afaik goes down in history as the recipient of the biggest fine/discipline for cheating in the history of autox, got caught cheating again?

And the reaction of some folks to this is "I'm sure this was as much a surprise to him"?

That stretches my ability to believe a little too far.

Anyway, let that alone.

He "mans up" and stands up at the banquet and does what would have happened anyway, while at the same time shifting the blame to his engine builder?  How is that manning up?

Ok, let _that_ alone.

Here's the thing... Andy needs to stop autocrossing, hopefully voluntarily but by enforcement of the SCCA if necessary.  Anything less makes a mockery of our sport.  I don't give a crap whose "fault" the cheater engine was or how nice an apology you offer up after you get caught... Its his responsibility and I think this is a case where you don't get the benefit of the doubt when its your second major offense.

Andy pushes his cars to the bleeding edge of the rules (how many other folks in STS have pro built motors?)  When you're at the sharp end of things like that, you better be ready to own up to illegalities, not retreat into "I didn't know".

I hope Andy does the right thing.  If he doesn't, I hope the SCCA has the balls to do it for him.

Mark

oh yeah... Does anyone else think if this wasn't Andy that a request to get on stage and plead their case would fall on deaf ears?

I usually laugh at your posts Mark, but this time, I agree.  Andy is perhaps the most outspoken Solo competitor of the past year or two, someone who himself has been involved in protesting other cars in his class, and has been on just about every committee that Solo has, making major decisions that affect many, was caught cheating.  Whether he knew it or not, he cheated.  And it seems that every forum I've read tonight is pouring over themselves with how selfless he was, and gracious with his actions.  

I'm curious, was anyone else who was caught cheating, or disqualified, allowed on stage? 

Three strikes and your out applies to Solo, right?  I guess we'll find out in 2009...

dmitrik4:

if i had the money and time, you're damn right i'd have a "pro built" motor instead of the 237,000 mile sad-sack i have now.  i'd bet that 99% of the rest of ST* would as well.  you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

A really valid point (I'd actually be driving something different if I had the money to have a "pro-built" engine in my econo-coupe, but that's beside the point ), but if I invested that money and that time into the engine, you'd be kidding yourself if I didn't care about each and every part that went into that motor.

dmitrik4:

i'm surprised that someone as experienced as Andy didn't know--he's talked about how it's the competitor's responsibility to know what's going on

I think that's the real issue here, and I think that's going to be masked by a lot of mouth-frothing rants; how he, as a multi-time national champion, didn't know what was going on inside his own car, especially with the point you brought up at the end.

 

Shoot happens, yes... but given that apparently this isn't the first time something like this has happened to who we're talking about, and his experience and background in autocrossing, it's shoot that's certainly going to be a hot topic for the forums.

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#12 STS 2007 Scion tC
#24 ITS/DSP 1991 Nissan 240SX

typerr:

From what I understand, the top three STS cars had their valve covers removed in impound. Mr. Hollis' car had its valve springs shimmed. Nothing else was checked as that was enough to DQ.

On those motors, shims aren't typically used for setting and equalling out height?

I'm not sure I see what the performance advantage would be...do those motors need more closing force at high rpms or something?

Signed,

Ignorant in Alamo

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In slow, out fast.
In fast, out backwards.