SCCAForums.com

I'm going to answer the survey when I get it...I wish someone would post a copy of it here so I could at least view it because I won't get to see it until I get home BUT...

Don't we PAY membership fees to be a part of this wonderful organization that seems to be catering lately to noisy cars on street tires?!?!  I was told by someone who's opinion I value that the prepared and modified classes were originally created so the road racers could bring them out to auto-x or sell their obsolete stuff to auto-xers.  This made sense to me at the time but we all know the labor of love that building and/or owning one of these cars is.  Most of these cars are built, not bought.  These are the only classes that encourage creative engineering (at least legally)...something that MUST be a part of hobby.  If I had to auto-x a stock class car I'd quit (well maybe not an SS car)

It's amazing to me that there's even a THOUGHT about eliminating ANY of these classes based on numbers.  If there was no interest in these classes (like BP had started to get) then I can understand but there are cars showing up, cars being built even in this crappy economy that we're all dealing with.  It was easy to see that the group at Nationals was thin this year, no matter what the entry numbers might say, LOTS less people were there if they weren't running.  In the past couple of years the paddock has been full.  It wasn't this year.

It's funny that I don't see a lot of people walking through the D Stock grid taking pictures and looking over the cars.  I'm still amazed at how many people walk through the DP grid taking pictures, asking questions and commenting on the effort to build the cars.  It makes it all worth while in my book.

If the SCCA want to continue to support the "Flavor of the year" classes and the "make my perfectly streetable Civic into a noisy timebomb" herd without finding a way to keep us involved, I doubt any amount of survey answers will sway this.  Maybe it's time to seriously think about the membership fees that we all pay and how, where and why those get spent.

 

 

 

---

Greg M.
148 DP Miata
Supported by:
AtTrack Graphics/Skull Motorsports/Karol and the kids!

Click on http://sccaforums.com/forums/permalink/325106/325064/ShowThread.aspx#325064 and you will find the first of 9 posts, each with a pdf attachment that shows pages 1-9.

---

Bob Buxbaum
Lee's Summit, Mo.

Howdy Greg

 I agree that class limits are tough to accept however, why should a natl championship be awarded to a one car class.  My suggestion is that Prep and Mod cars should have a lower number of required cars and a 3 year time period.  Face it, if you can't get a car to Natls in 3 yrs, it isn't coming or technology will have long passed it up by that time.  For the other classes, I think a higher number of cars with a 2 yr time limit is acceptable. 

 Just my .02

 

---

turbotoddie
todd farris
CP96

TT-

I never said a National Championship sgould be awarded to a single car...I firmly believe that No class should have a national champ if there is no competition.  AM has been a one (or two) car class the four years I've been to nationals...this year there were a bunch (although no BBR Shark)...

I didn't say it clearly enough earlier.  The SCCA needs to consider the overall circumstances of class attendance other than just the magical number of 17... 

The class limit pressure is not helping us get people interested in building these cars...they're afraid they'll build a car for a class that'll be obsoleted.

 

---

Greg M.
148 DP Miata
Supported by:
AtTrack Graphics/Skull Motorsports/Karol and the kids!

gregmeier:

It's funny that I don't see a lot of people walking through the D Stock grid taking pictures and looking over the cars.

There were plenty of people walking through DS grid, asking plenty of questions about what is one of the most diverse classes in stock. Now, HS OTOH...

In any event, I don't think that the minimum participation rule should be a hard, fast number, and that's what I wrote in the survey. 17 is probably too low for a stock class, but obviously too high for AM. Additionally, what I don't understand is that people -- including the SEB -- continue to say that "after 3 years, the class is gone," yet the rule reads "action must be taken," leaving that "action" up to a variety of ideas, such as combining classes, adding competition adjustments or whatever... not just elimination. I understand the reason behind the rule, but it's the implementing of it that I think has been subject to the whims of whoever is on the SEB during the third year of any particular unsubscribed class.

---

Karen Kraus
2005 SCCA SEDiv FS Champion
2007 SCCA DSL National Champion
2008 SCCA ProSolo L1 Champion

Actually, Greg, I kinda agree with ya about awarding a championship. But I'm not about to ditch ladies classes yet. Still, here's what gets me, a gal can win BSPL as a one-car class and be called champion, but a guy can win a 33-car STS2 class and be given the almost demeaning appelation of "national winner" (and no jacket) mostly because the SEB wants to keep it as a "supplementary class." No slam on the BSPL gal, BTW, she came ready to take on all comers and it's not her fault nobody else showed up -- just an example of the disparity.

But here's what I'd do if I made the rule -- less than 5 cars and you're a "winner." Five or more cars and you're a champion. That simple. So all the Stock Ladies would have champions this year (smallest class GSL at 5). And STS2 (also STS2L) would have champions not just "winners" (33 and 7 cars respectively). But most important, the class exists, it is not threatened with extinction, and you can come have fun with your car just like everyone else without fear of some rulebook Sword of Damocles hanging over your head.

 I was a bit miffed when SEB chair Tina Reeves said "you can just bring co-drivers" (to help the numbers). Actually I did that this year for just that reason, and it worked. The two I brought in my car, husband-wife, were the ones that pushed GP over the line to 18 entries. Without them we'd have been under 17 for a third year. What it cost me, I figure, is eight events in my own car. They both had 11 runs in my car practicing and qualifying at a divisional, then six more at Nationals. 34 runs total (not counting a couple of reruns). Average 4 runs at a local event, sometimes 5, that's eight events I don't get to drive before it's time to pull the engine and have it sent off to be refreshed -- a maintenance item Stock classes don't worry about.

---

--Rocky Entriken